Corfu Bareboat Charter - Refusing to return our deposit

[nevis768]

They can't enforce a bill dispute without having a repair receipt, this is what car hire companies were doing for years, charging every customer for the same small damage or new damage, but then not repairing until end of life of car with their firm (2 or 3 years)
All credit card companies had fraud investigators working on these scams. There were so many complaints, none were paid unless the car was taken off the road and repaired. It's a shame you didn't use a credit card but some debit cards are also quite good, and if the boat is back out you could reasonably allege fraud.
I wouldn't let on you know the boat is back out and see if they commit themselves to some lies on paper which you can disprove with AIS.
(I have investigated fraud amongst other things)

 

[Seastoke]

We hired a one way motor home in the states, there was three couples in one each ,they were running late on change over as I sat in the office I notice every one was loosing there deposit ,the guy doing the checks found every dent , when someone was leaving he hardly naked any . So we went around with him marked every mark on the vans. So we set off ,on the way round I phoned their head office and explained what I had seen they assured me we would have no such problems. A couple of days later a mate backs his van into a tree , he thought he was going to lose his 1k deposit , we got to Miami , they never even checked our vans. So we’re scamming.

 

[Annabubble]

May we see?

This is the new crack that we apparently made, although it looked like it was old damage that someone had tried to fill in. The boat was made in 2020.

 

[Annabubble]

They can't enforce a bill dispute without having a repair receipt, this is what car hire companies were doing for years, charging every customer for the same small damage or new damage, but then not repairing until end of life of car with their firm (2 or 3 years)
All credit card companies had fraud investigators working on these scams. There were so many complaints, none were paid unless the car was taken off the road and repaired. It's a shame you didn't use a credit card but some debit cards are also quite good, and if the boat is back out you could reasonably allege fraud.
I wouldn't let on you know the boat is back out and see if they commit themselves to some lies on paper which you can disprove with AIS.
(I have investigated fraud amongst other things)

Thank you.

 

[Irish Rover]

They can't enforce a bill dispute without having a repair receipt, this is what car hire companies were doing for years, charging every customer for the same small damage or new damage, but then not repairing until end of life of car with their firm (2 or 3 years)
All credit card companies had fraud investigators working on these scams. There were so many complaints, none were paid unless the car was taken off the road and repaired. It's a shame you didn't use a credit card but some debit cards are also quite good, and if the boat is back out you could reasonably allege fraud.
I wouldn't let on you know the boat is back out and see if they commit themselves to some lies on paper which you can disprove with AIS.
(I have investigated fraud amongst other things)

With regard to the bit in bold can you please quote the relevant Greek law which stipulates this.
What does the contract which the OP signed actually say in relation to the deposit?
I can’t see the relevance of the boat being back out on charter unless, of course, the charter company told the OP that the boat had to be taken out of service because of the damage they allegedly caused.

 

[nevis768]

With regard to the bit in bold can you please quote the relevant Greek law which stipulates this.
What does the contract which the OP signed actually say in relation to the deposit?
I can’t see the relevance of the boat being back out on charter unless, of course, the charter company told the OP that the boat had to be taken out of service because of the damage they allegedly caused.

I'm presuming it's a British bank not a Greek bank that will deal with the complaint, not an expert on banking, but in the similar credit card/car hire scams that were prevalent it was UK law that dealt with the scams. Not quite sure how a debit card operates, not personally dealt with that. If you want to charge somebody for damage then obviously you will need a bill to show damage repair, or else every guest for the next 2 years could be charged for the same damage, this is what an investigation would look at. This is what was going on at Geneva airport car hire for years, and the credit card companies noticed it and got tough.
Re your contract point, the contract is irrelevant if there has been fraud, and various other matters are also relevant. Had it been a credit card this would be much easier, because the OP's dispute is then ultimately with the card provider, not a Greek. The credit card company has the dispute with the Greek person. It's not an easy one for the OP, but the boat being back out is certainly in her favour.

 

[Irish Rover]

I'm presuming it's a British bank not a Greek bank that will deal with the complaint, not an expert on banking, but in the similar credit card/car hire scams that were prevalent it was UK law that dealt with the scams. Not quite sure how a debit card operates, not personally dealt with that. If you want to charge somebody for damage then obviously you will need a bill to show damage repair, or else every guest for the next 2 years could be charged for the same damage, this is what an investigation would look at. This is what was going on at Geneva airport car hire for years, and the credit card companies noticed it and got tough.
Re your contract point, the contract is irrelevant if there has been fraud, and various other matters are also relevant. Had it been a credit card this would be much easier, because the OP's dispute is then ultimately with the card provider, not a Greek. The credit card company has the dispute with the Greek person. It's not an easy one for the OP, but the boat being back out is certainly in her favour.

It is not the function of banks to investigate allegations of fraud. That's a police matter. It's nonsense to say the contract is not relevant. If the charter company has withheld the deposit in accordance with the terms of the contract, they're perfectly entitled to do so. Most probably, they will have to produce a damage report and an estimate of repair costs in due course. Most probably the customer has a right to engage an expert to carry out their own assessment. Are the charter company required to produce a receipt to show the work was actually carried out? I don't know. What does the contract say. If you crash into my car I'm not obliged to get it repaired. I can decide to take the money and keep or sell the damaged car.

 

[Sailing steve]

We absolutely believe this is what they are doing. Someone on here mentioned looking at the AIS tracker and having just checked the boat is currently back out in the Ionian Sea having left the day after we checked out. They may well have fixed the boat in that short time but my suspicion is that it hasn't been fixed and this will just happen again further down the line to someone else. We were naïve and have learnt an expensive lesson but we will definitely get deposit insurance out next time!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's exactly what's occurring, as I've found both UK brokers and charter companies themselves remarkably slippery and evasive when a charter deal turns out to be rather short of what you were promised or expecting.

I'm afraid the days when you might expect a reasonable standard of probity and decency from any goods or service provider are long gone, especially when in a less familiar or rushed situation such as vehicle or yacht rentals and most of them more recently appear to regard clients as walking wallets who are simply there to be screwed for every penny they've got.

 

[Irish Rover]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's exactly what's occurring, as I've found both UK brokers and charter companies themselves remarkably slippery and evasive when a charter deal turns out to be rather short of what you were promised or expecting.

I'm afraid the days when you might expect a reasonable standard of probity and decency from any goods or service provider are long gone, especially when in a less familiar or rushed situation such as vehicle or yacht rentals and most of them more recently appear to regard clients as walking wallets who are simply there to be screwed for every penny they've got.

I've never chartered a yacht but I hire cars at least 5/6 every year in Europe and the US and have been doing so for well over 20 years. I've yet to encounter a situation where any hire company has tried to rip me off. I've had a few scrapes over the years but I have annual insurance to cover these. I know there are a few bad eggs in every sector but in my experience they're easily avoided with a bit of basic research.

 

[oldbloke]

Did you book directly or through a UK broker?. If a broker, have you spoken to them?. Not withstanding sailingsteve's post we have found the broker that we have used for the last 10 years (Seamaster Yachting, not connection just satisfied customer) to be very helpful and concerned about his good reputation.
I couldn't comment on the alleged keel but that crack has obviously been worked on by someone.

 

[Sailing steve]

I've never chartered a yacht but I hire cars at least 5/6 every year in Europe and the US and have been doing so for well over 20 years. I've yet to encounter a situation where any hire company has tried to rip me off.

'Fraid we have - with regard to car hire we've had our credit card cloned by the rental staff in Fuerteventura and been sent a speculative invoice along with a threat of court action for hundreds of pounds of alleged damage to a car in Cyprus several weeks after we returned to the UK.

In addition to that I've had to go back to the desk and ask for existing damage to be recorded after I've picked up the keys on several occasions in the last 30 years.

I'm very cynical and very careful with whom I do business with now. Lessons learned.

 

[Davy_S]

Perhaps pointing the charter company to this thread would give them an idea of the opinions of possible future customers, and give them a chance to respond, bad publicity does no one any good.

 

[Irish Rover]

'Fraid we have - with regard to car hire we've had our credit card cloned by the rental staff in Fuerteventura and been sent a speculative invoice along with a threat of court action for hundreds of pounds of alleged damage to a car in Cyprus several weeks after we returned to the UK.

In addition to that I've had to go back to the desk and ask for existing damage to be recorded after I've picked up the keys on several occasions in the last 30 years.

I'm very cynical and very careful with whom I do business with now. Lessons learned.

Maybe if you'd been more cynical and careful earlier in life you'd have avoided more of your problems. I'm not saying it applies to you, but there are so many people who book the cheapest option knowing full well it's too good to be true, and then cry when the chickens come home to roost.

 

[Irish Rover]

Perhaps pointing the charter company to this thread would give them an idea of the opinions of possible future customers, and give them a chance to respond, bad publicity does no one any good.

I'd say some posters might want to review what they've posted before the OP does that. Defending a lible action is expensive .

 

[Stemar]

I've yet to encounter a situation where any hire company has tried to rip me off. I've had a few scrapes over the years but I have annual insurance to cover these.

Maybe knowing you have insurance means the scam isn't worth it, as the insurer has a bit more clout.

 

[Sailing steve]

. Not withstanding sailingsteve's post we have found the broker that we have used for the last 10 years (Seamaster Yachting, not connection just satisfied customer) to be very helpful and concerned about his good reputation.

The UK broker we've used on a number of occasions appeared charming and helpful, nothing was too much trouble prior to our trip and he secured us what appeared to be a good deal.

When it became apparent our last charter was turning into a big disappointment because of a long list of faults and problems we encountered with the boat provided he repeatedly and determinedly referred us back to the charter company.

So yeah, all good until it's not - and that's when you really find out what calibre of people you're dealing with.

 

[oldbloke]

The UK broker we've used on a number of occasions appeared charming and helpful, nothing was too much trouble prior to our trip and he secured us what appeared to be a good deal.

When it became apparent our last charter was turning into a big disappointment because of a long list of faults and problems we encountered with the boat provided he repeatedly and determinedly referred us back to the charter company.

So yeah, all good until it's not - and that's when you really find out what calibre of people you're dealing with.

Agree entirely. But won't know till they've tried. (If applicable).

I notice that Isalos only have a few reviews , so a stinker might be prominent and enough to significantly reduce their stars. Which might concentrate their minds

 

[Sailing steve]

Maybe if you'd been more cynical and careful earlier in life you'd have avoided more of your problems. I'm not saying it applies to you, but there are so many people who book the cheapest option knowing full well it's too good to be true, and then cry when the chickens come home to roost.

Doubtless I should have been.

But I'm more than making up for that now.

 

[Mark-1]

I'd say some posters might want to review what they've posted before the OP does that. Defending a lible action is expensive .

Even spelling it can be tricky!

 

[Irish Rover]

Even spelling it can be tricky!

It's the Irish Catholic upbringing. The bible is always at the forefront of my mind.