Great cruising boat suggestions.
- Thread starter Allan
- Start date
Blue Nile
Active Member
And your opinion is?
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
A Nauticat would have plenty of room and will go anywhere.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
When I was looking for my current boat I walked, fast, away from one which was generally very nice, but which had clear signs of a failing teak deck, and went for a nice, simple GRP deck instead.
Allan
Well-Known Member
Blue Nile
Active Member
That's interesting.
I suppose, not having owned anything else, that I haven't noticed her as being "racy".
She is not tippy, she is entirely predictable, and well balanced.
She has nice lines, too, as well as good accommodation.
And i'm not trying to sell one!
I suppose, not having owned anything else, that I haven't noticed her as being "racy".
She is not tippy, she is entirely predictable, and well balanced.
She has nice lines, too, as well as good accommodation.
And i'm not trying to sell one!
Scotty_Tradewind
Well-Known Member
Except aren't they motor sailors in the true sense of the word and I'm told they will not point well. ???
Great if you want a spacious livea-board but according to a friend he really dislikes its sailability.
S.
Allan
Well-Known Member
That reflects exactly what I understand. The first advertisement I found for one of them started with the words "A great example of this well-known motorsailor".
Allan
tcm
...
Allan
I hear your remarks and saw your PM - all fine. I'm sorry to cause offence (again...)
I suppose that I became unsettled (ok, animated, narked..) at the remoteness of your queries and your cool responses to others who have evidently been keen to help find a boat. We all love vicarious boat-buying!
Looking at the thread more carefully perhaps I didn't fully recognise that you are helping someone ELSE find a boat. I suppose that's what has made a potentially interesting thread rather wishy washy - we're never going to get a super-positive response from you to any suggestion cos heh - it's not you buying.
Seems you plan to keep your own 30-something foot boat ... and help them buy another one? I should be wary of making further suggestions (!) save the obvious one of er selling yours and buying a bigger one between you? You must have your reasons, and I imagine that your experience of an Atlantic circuit means that you already know much of what I'm going to say. Whatever.
I met a seasoned sailor in Gib once who had just arrived, and i must have asked if he was on his way west to the carib. He shuddered and laughed nervously - ooh gosh no! Ooer! I said that he'd done easily the hardest bit by getting to Gib, but he simply would believe it. Another time I was inshore on a boat with one of those Solent-reared youthful breezy sailing instructors who said that his company was fine about inexperienced sailor taking a boat out as far as the Safe Water Buoy, but beyond that, hmmm. He didn't seem to have twigged that er, the safe water is BEYOND that buoy...
Generations of UK sailors seem to have forgotten the obvious reason why the Spanish and Portuguese discovered the New World a hundred years before the Brits got going - it's because the experimental wooden bathtubs sent out from southern Iberia got nicely swept south and west, whereas a return trip across the English Channel (often with time constraints...) is easily the most severe test most RTW sailors will ever encounter. Or ok, in your case Allan - the Bristol Channel, another potential nightmare.
But one should correct those (even in this thread) who promulgate the notion that yeah, a boat might be ok for the Channel, pah, but the Atlantic - MUCH more serious. Not it isn't - a 3m sea in the channel is serious stuff cos the wave period is short - in an ocean a "3m sea" has a long loping nature and shallow wave gradients - the longer the wave period the gentler the sea of course, my favourite wave period being about three weeks...
A friend once remarked that you could cross the Atlantic westbound in a bouncy castle and I have seriously considered the challenge - but I would assemble and inflate the thing in the Canaries, not in the UK!
I'm kinda driving at your earliest post which stipulated "Suitable for an Atlantic crossing" but which surely needs addressing: you take just about any boat - the bigger the better, and you fill it with fuel, water, food and as many convenience devices as you fancy. Long-term sailors dream about on-board washing machines, not fancy rigging. Yeah ok, and you don't need teak foredecks or big windows if heading near palm trees - pretty obvious you'd think but lots have boats more suited to indoor cruising in cold climes and few take the time to fit the removable transparent reflective foil, and so they dream about air conditioning as well.
All other things being equal (hah!) the issue of LOA cannot be over-emphasised as THE single most important issue for a boat's safety and liveability and ease of handling. Aren't these the main three issues that one is always trying to balance in choosing a boat for a long-distance cruise? I think so.
Although it sounds or looks daunting, a bigger boat has a massive advantage which is this: its inertness (goes where it's pointed, feels more secure ) increases in proportion with the cube of its length whereas its windage (doesn't go where it's pointed, drops over waves more, iffy in marinas....) only increases with the square of LOA.
Yet the apparently-foolishly-large boats get better spots in marinas (or roll less at anchor) and lots of help should they need it, but I (and so - anyone!) can singlehand a 60-70 foot boat much more easily than a 30--40 footer. Yeah ok, there's the gulp factor, but it is unfounded.
If you get wet on a bigger boat, it's generally because it rained, not because you set off in 35knots. You're less likely to get thrown off or around the thing cos it doesn't make those faster/unexpected movements that a smaller boat does in the same sea.
And of course, secondhand bigger boats generally should be a better buy if they were otherwise identical to the smaller ones - because they are initially bought and maintained by more affluent owners. Bit harsh but very true- If a small boat owner suddenly gets richer, they are more likely to think about buying a bigger boat, not replacing their existing rigging and engine.
This is a very long-winded way of saying that my advice would be to get the biggest boat possible. Or at least ... i do think that some potential buyers should surely be in a position to know what handling a bigger boat is like - easier in all respects (other than financial...) and yet few really seem to get it. Even very experienced sailors and anyone at fuel stations are genuinely surprised at how a single person can bring in a big boat - when the smaller ones need more crew and a lot more fuss. So it's going to much worse in a bigger boat, obviously. No, it isn't - and in fact the reverse is true.
Oh and of course for catamaran types, you have double the LOA, sort-of, so you have lots of the advantages of the MUCH bigger boats, and the only disadvantages being the boat is uglier than the monos, the motion is a bit weird and even spooky in big beam seas, it's duller to sail, and (almost never mentioned) - there's the massive NOISE - as the cat bounces along over the waves - doesn't need a keel but the payoff is thrashity bang - experienced mono sailors don't get to sleep on a catamaran at sea for the first few days -even downwind - cos when they are in their bunk it sounds as though the boat has hit something like a container or a rock about every five seconds. Less noise with higher bridge deck (height of gap between hulls) so I suppose it would be quiet with bridge deck of say 3metres....
So in summary, bigger is better. How much better? Compare a 36 footer (10metre) against a 50footer 15metre and the numbers show the bigger boat (if the same shape...) has three times the volume/displacement but only twice the windage.
PS What is it with you Cardiff lot - is there a rule that you're only allowed a Westerly, and small one at that? Oops, I've gone and done that offensive thing again, sorry. I was doing ok until that last bit ....
Have fun in your search anyway.
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lampshuk
Well-Known Member
Allan, I'm very interested in your experiences taking the M31 Transatlantic. I had a look at the "Moody Old Blokes" thread on the CYC website, but there's not a lot of detail (nice TV interview, though!). Out in March, back in July. Very impressive!
I'm interested because it's on my bucket list to do something like that, and I own a Moody 31 at the moment. When I was a nipper my Dad took the family (3 kids + him and Mum) off on a well-planned transatlantic trip which we sadly had to abort due to medical reasons. That was on a Westerly Berwick. So, while I completely understand the prevailing opinion that "bigger is better" I also follow the "small boats, small problems - big boats, big problems." school of thought. Just interested in how the M31 did on the crossing. Did you encounter much in the way of heavy weather? Of course, if there's a more detailed writeup somewhere that would be interesting to read. Just point me at it.
Cheers,
Lampsh.
I'm interested because it's on my bucket list to do something like that, and I own a Moody 31 at the moment. When I was a nipper my Dad took the family (3 kids + him and Mum) off on a well-planned transatlantic trip which we sadly had to abort due to medical reasons. That was on a Westerly Berwick. So, while I completely understand the prevailing opinion that "bigger is better" I also follow the "small boats, small problems - big boats, big problems." school of thought. Just interested in how the M31 did on the crossing. Did you encounter much in the way of heavy weather? Of course, if there's a more detailed writeup somewhere that would be interesting to read. Just point me at it.
Cheers,
Lampsh.
Seven Spades
Well-Known Member
E39mad
Well-Known Member
Modern Nauticats are fin and skeg - motorsailor in the traditional sense that it has an inside steering position. Otherwise sail very well. Expensive but deservedly so.
Allan
Well-Known Member
TCM, thanks for your input. I agree with pretty much every part of it. One small point I think you missed. I don't agree with the standard notion about the Bristol channel. We don't all have Westerlys, Blue Bear is a Moody! The extra weight of old British boats, in my opinion, makes them suitable for the short confused seas that we can get.
Maybe I should have made the point that the new boat is for Solent, channel etc. with a few longer trips, not full time distance cruising.
Lampsh, I've not written anywhere else about our trip, there are many trips which are much more impressive! TCM's mention of the sea states and wave length are exactly what we found. On the Atlantic trip the "worst" seas were off northern Spain. When I sailed to Cyprus, last winter, the "worst" seas were 6-10 miles west of Cardiff! I should also point out the number of wine bottles that were emptied before the interviews!
The Moody 31 was fine for the crossing, I suppose a fin may have been better but the bilge keeled one was what we had available at the time. These days the important bits like Biscay etc. can be sailed within one weather forecast. The "proper" sailors of years gone by did not have this luxury.
Allan
Maybe I should have made the point that the new boat is for Solent, channel etc. with a few longer trips, not full time distance cruising.
Lampsh, I've not written anywhere else about our trip, there are many trips which are much more impressive! TCM's mention of the sea states and wave length are exactly what we found. On the Atlantic trip the "worst" seas were off northern Spain. When I sailed to Cyprus, last winter, the "worst" seas were 6-10 miles west of Cardiff! I should also point out the number of wine bottles that were emptied before the interviews!
The Moody 31 was fine for the crossing, I suppose a fin may have been better but the bilge keeled one was what we had available at the time. These days the important bits like Biscay etc. can be sailed within one weather forecast. The "proper" sailors of years gone by did not have this luxury.
Allan
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JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
There seemed to be a lot of Nauticats up the west of Scotland this summer. They seem - how can I put this tactfully - to appeal particularly to the more mature sailing couple. NTTAWWT.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Probably because they are the only people who can afford them!
Anyway get on a 42 and you will understand why they are so good at long term cruising for a couple. Very powerful sailing boat and as said earlier only motor sailer bit is the inside steering position.
Unfortunately these and even the smaller 37s are way outside the OPs budget.
jonic
Well-Known Member
Not relevant budget wise as Tranona says but here is one to peek at http://www.jryachts.com/boat-details?boatid=1160941
Owned by a sometimes on here forumite and absolutely gorgeous.
Mega comfortable and extremely well designed from a handling perspective. No problems single handing as everything falls to hand. The cockpit layout is very good. I like the set up.
If steered from the inside it is via throttle control and autopilot. (Some have a wheel)
Interior quality is first class and you would never guess she is a 1997 boat, but her owners are meticulous.
They also use her virtually every week-end which helps with the standard of upkeep.
You can also find them fitted out with baths and some even have a sauna!
Sticky Fingers
Well-Known Member
One sold on De Valk recently had a sauna...
pvb
Well-Known Member
Over and over again we get this myth repeated. Moody 31 weighs 9966lbs, Westerly Longbow 31 weighs 9400lbs, Bavaria 31 (2007-) weighs 10340lbs.
adwuk
Well-Known Member
I always believed that older British boats were heavy, so half-inched some other figures from Mr. Wilson's website. How about these?
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 34.2 = 10,253 lbs
Beneteau Oceanis 361 = 12,125 lbs
Bavaria 35 = 12,786 lbs
Rustler 36 = 16,800 lbs
Nicholson 35 = 17,630 lbs
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 34.2 = 10,253 lbs
Beneteau Oceanis 361 = 12,125 lbs
Bavaria 35 = 12,786 lbs
Rustler 36 = 16,800 lbs
Nicholson 35 = 17,630 lbs
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dom
Well-Known Member
Nope, not a myth: step on any well-found British or Swedish cruising boat and notice how much steadier it is underfoot as opposed to the comparable light weight foreign offering. The reason is simple: Archimedes was Greek and he omitted to patent his principle in the Northern countries.
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