Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
So what does the VAT on fuel pay for?
Goodbye red diesel!
- Thread starter CLB
- Start date
duncan99210
Well-Known Member
Anything the Treasury wants to spend it on..... The only hypothecated tax is the sugary drink tax which has to be spent on health education projects.
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Perhaps if Boris succeeds... we can maintain our use of red fuel?
After all this is an EU imposition over what is supposed to be a sovereign government.
After all this is an EU imposition over what is supposed to be a sovereign government.
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Happy to not go there if they want to behave like arseholes and deprive local restaurants of trade.
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
I’m not sure that €20 a plate for Fruits de mer is going to worry them to much. They are a sovereign country too.
Their rules there, ours here
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Actually, it's parliament which is sovereign in England, not the government. Or at least, that's how it was until a few days ago.
dom
Well-Known Member
Red diesel has been caught way offside by our improved understanding of global warming. Arguments about road tax, availability in commercial outlets, etc. are of course all valid to some extent.
But slapping an environmental 'green escalator' tax on a nurse or Tesco shop assistant while we blat around burning significant quantities of diesel for pleasure is political and moral dynamite!
Red diesel now faces the same fate as the poor old dinosaurs during their mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous period.
Is that not obvious?
But slapping an environmental 'green escalator' tax on a nurse or Tesco shop assistant while we blat around burning significant quantities of diesel for pleasure is political and moral dynamite!
Red diesel now faces the same fate as the poor old dinosaurs during their mass extinction at the end of the Cretaceous period.
Is that not obvious?
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Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
To most, yes.
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
Are you saying red diesel for all applications and tax reduced diesel for all applications or just for the leisure sector?
dom
Well-Known Member
Only leisure; taxing fishing industry diesel for example would simply damage the terms of trade of UK fishermen in relation to their foreign competitors. Unable to recover these costs, many would go bust.
Economically, it is much easier to tax an end of supply chain leisure activity where the new tax will exert little detrimental effect on those activities.
The fact that these people are considered rich and privileged makes it politically impossible to stop, EU, or no EU.
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
Like some of the recent posters - I'm not too concerned by taxing my leisure use from a 'principle' perspective. Seems fair that if I have to pay to drive to the boat for green reasons, then charging me to use diesel on the boat should be the same. We pay to use petrol in the outboard, why not the diesel in the inboard?
Commercial - I need someone with a better brain to work out - it would seem taxation would encourage efficiency - which is presumably good for the gran kids? Commericial road users pay, why not commercial shipping? BUT I suspect it may result in shipping filling up elsewhere and so not paying the UK at all...
But the purpose of this post:
1. If we were out of the EU, and declared Red OK for leisure purposes - how would the EU cope? If for instance I was a US boat that filled up in the US, I presumably arrive not having paid tax in the EU for the fuel. Probably paying far less tax in the US because the US are climate change deniers...
2. If we ban red for leisure - what happens in Scotland where you can travel 100s of miles between places you can even get red. Where those providers of Red are usually for commercial fishing boats etc and so have no real desire to install a white tank, white pump etc for £20 worth to a WAFI... How do we think out circum-navigation plans will be affected? Should I start planning a bike trailer that can take a couple of jerry cans?
Commercial - I need someone with a better brain to work out - it would seem taxation would encourage efficiency - which is presumably good for the gran kids? Commericial road users pay, why not commercial shipping? BUT I suspect it may result in shipping filling up elsewhere and so not paying the UK at all...
But the purpose of this post:
1. If we were out of the EU, and declared Red OK for leisure purposes - how would the EU cope? If for instance I was a US boat that filled up in the US, I presumably arrive not having paid tax in the EU for the fuel. Probably paying far less tax in the US because the US are climate change deniers...
2. If we ban red for leisure - what happens in Scotland where you can travel 100s of miles between places you can even get red. Where those providers of Red are usually for commercial fishing boats etc and so have no real desire to install a white tank, white pump etc for £20 worth to a WAFI... How do we think out circum-navigation plans will be affected? Should I start planning a bike trailer that can take a couple of jerry cans?
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Well I had thought that might be the case about Scotland, but now not so sure. North and West of Oban /Tobermory there seemed even today to be very little access to Red diesel by pump. Even high yachting traffic places like Mallaig, Ullapool, Lochboisdale Marina etc offered red diesel but only in 20 litre cans, and a trolley to wheel them on. And all these places had petrol stations so could just as easily sourced 20 litre cans of white diesel.
But for any serious cruise it is always carrying a 20 litre can and a folding trolley (for food shopping as much as diesel cans), so don’t see why should worry about this for a round U.K. (other than most people doing this seem to rush round burning a lot of expensive diesel of whatever colour).
Minchsailor
Well-Known Member
I beg to differ. Red diesel by pump alongside is available (on the mainland) at Kyle of Lochalsh, Loch Gairloch, Lochinver, Kinlochbervie, and (in the Outer Hebrides) near Castlebay, Eriskay, Kallin, Loch Stochnish, Scalpay and Stornoway.
lw395
Well-Known Member
The consultation:
Published 15 July 2019
From:
HM Revenue & Customs
Summary
We are inviting views on, and seeking information about, proposed changes to the rules for red diesel used in private pleasure craft as a result of the judgment of the CJEU.
""This consultation closes at
11:45pm on 9 September 2019
Consultation description
This consultation outlines how the government intends to implement the judgment by requiring private pleasure craft to use white diesel for propulsion, and seeks evidence about the impact this will have on users of diesel propelled craft operating in UK inland waterways and along the coast, and the companies that supply diesel to them.
The responses will be used to help determine whether a period will be required for suppliers, known as Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCOs), and users of diesel fuel, to adapt to using only white diesel for propulsion of private pleasure craft and, if needed, the length of any such period.""
My guess is sellers of Red might have until next year or similar?
Published 15 July 2019
From:
HM Revenue & Customs
Summary
We are inviting views on, and seeking information about, proposed changes to the rules for red diesel used in private pleasure craft as a result of the judgment of the CJEU.
""This consultation closes at
11:45pm on 9 September 2019
Consultation description
This consultation outlines how the government intends to implement the judgment by requiring private pleasure craft to use white diesel for propulsion, and seeks evidence about the impact this will have on users of diesel propelled craft operating in UK inland waterways and along the coast, and the companies that supply diesel to them.
The responses will be used to help determine whether a period will be required for suppliers, known as Registered Dealers in Controlled Oils (RDCOs), and users of diesel fuel, to adapt to using only white diesel for propulsion of private pleasure craft and, if needed, the length of any such period.""
My guess is sellers of Red might have until next year or similar?
GTom
Well-Known Member
Good. My tank is currently filled with diesel enough for 2 years. If the grace period is 1 year then what am I going to do, pump the cr.p out in the bay?
I do not care too much about that £30-40 tax/year I would have to pay, the real question is if the transition will be done in a civilized manner? Meaning, boat owners won't be required to produce fuel bills from 2years ago and won't be required to clean the fuel system by an engineer.
Also wonder if the attitude of the French/Spanish/etc customs will change regarding red diesel traces in the tank.
I do not care too much about that £30-40 tax/year I would have to pay, the real question is if the transition will be done in a civilized manner? Meaning, boat owners won't be required to produce fuel bills from 2years ago and won't be required to clean the fuel system by an engineer.
Also wonder if the attitude of the French/Spanish/etc customs will change regarding red diesel traces in the tank.
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dunedin
Well-Known Member
Perhaps worth you replying to the consultation to add your voice to the need for a sensible transition period.
NormanS
Well-Known Member
+1. And also at quite a number of other fishing harbours.
Minchsailor
Well-Known Member
Norman - which ones, I thought I had a full hand?
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Portree, Uig.
