Goodbye red diesel!

[Elemental]

Re: Red diesel

If anyone is interested, we moved from the UK to the Med a couple of seasons ago and it only took around three fill-ups to remove the visible presence of the red dye in the fuel.

That pretty much corresponds with the calculation I posted a couple of years ago.

I switched to white two seasons ago. Ran the tank down to <25% filled with white (I carry a 20L can to and from the boat). Repeated and now just top off with white. I can't see any hint of Red in a side by side comparison.

 

[Alanij]

Re: Red diesel

There have been a couple of posts where people have said they've diluted the red their tanks were previously filled with, and there is now no visible trace of red - unfortunately HMRC, and probably anyone else determinedly looking for evidence of wrongful use of red diesel don't just rely on purely visible evidence, but carry out chemical testing as well.

 

[Old Harry]

Re: Red diesel

There have been a couple of posts where people have said they've diluted the red their tanks were previously filled with, and there is now no visible trace of red - unfortunately HMRC, and probably anyone else determinedly looking for evidence of wrongful use of red diesel don't just rely on purely visible evidence, but carry out chemical testing as well.

:sleeping:

 

[asteven221]

Re: Red diesel

What will happen is that there will be a black market in red fuel. (As an aside one can run household heating fuel in site dumpers etc, I know because I have done it).
Plus, red should still be available to avoid the extra paperwork for the host of users who should be able to use cheap fuel, Ie farmers, fishermen,construction sites, power generators & other off road users. The problem is that fraud could easily take place on a large scale if some were able to claim rebates.
Perhaps it is better just to let them have it cheaper in the first place. So a case exists to keep red fuel.

It is the presence of red dye that the Belgians object to as it demonstrates that red fuel has been used where it should not have been. If we start giving rebates for white fuel, how will they know that the fuel we are using has not been rebated. Will that cause problems with the EU ( until we leave, if we do)?

I saw a scrap dealer fill his MOBO up with a few hundred litres of fuel & the invoice was made to his scrap company.( perfectly OK if the company owned the boat, so the seller had no issues) Can you guess where that invoice went?

Whilst all these points are valid, similar thinking could be applied to all sorts of areas of our economy and business.

My point is that if red diesel was banned and illegal from a certain date, then what is left in the system will vanish over a short period of time. If people want to try and create a black market and commit fraud, that is up to them, but they will only be able to do it for a relatively short period of time. Further, if they get caught then they have to consider the consequences i.e. potentially a convicted fraudster etc.... HMRC are not totally stupid and if they decide to put their minds to it, I have no doubt they will won't have much difficulty in catching folk if they are selling/buying illegal fuel.

What you mentioned about the mobo owner probably happens quite a lot and I suspect a few people I know are up to the same thing, however there is a risk of being caught so it's their choice.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Red diesel

HMRC are not totally stupid .

:highly_amused::highly_amused::highly_amused:

 

[Blue Sunray]

Possibly.

Although there are circumstances such as sea conditions and mechanical issues where more fuel may be consumed than might have been expected.

The inability to refuel simply because the fuel available is red may lead to some journeys becoming impossible. Or worse still people may risk running short on fuel.

My boat doesn't have the fuel capacity to get me across the Atlantic, nor get to the Faroes with a contingency reserve, so I don't intend to try. That's hardly the responsibility of the EU, HMRC or any other level of government.

 

[Momac]

My boat doesn't have the fuel capacity to get me across the Atlantic, nor get to the Faroes with a contingency reserve, so I don't intend to try. That's hardly the responsibility of the EU, HMRC or any other level of government.

I did not have Atlantic crossings in mind.

 

[Tomahawk]

Seeing Red no more

Government consultation on forcing pleasure boat owners to pay more tax..

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/new...%%emailname_%%&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ET

 

[RichardS]

Re: Seeing Red no more

Also see http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...sultation-on-Red-Diesel&p=6847188#post6847188

Richard

 

[Tomahawk]

Re: Goodbye Red Diesel on Motor Boat Forum

The questions I ask are simples..

How much "red" fuel is bought by leisure boas over a year?
From which , how much revenue will it produce for the tax man?
From which, how much will it cost the marine industry to double up their supply chain to have separate commercial and leisure fuel tanks, lines, pumps, and billing systems?
How much will this cost the consumer... us? Obviously all of the extra cost will be passed onto us!


And this is for a Union Directive when we have a PM committed to not being subjugated to unelected bureaucrats from another country.

Why should we live by the rules of Europe?

 

[Tomahawk]

I believe that private planes do not pay VAT on their fuel. Should their owners, as a form of parity with recreational boat owners, give up this concession ?

No...
The parity with private leisure aircraft should be maintained.

After all, the government does not pay for the sea.. why should we the leisure boat owner pay for using it?

 

[lw395]

I believe that private planes do not pay VAT on their fuel. Should their owners, as a form of parity with recreational boat owners, give up this concession ?

You seem to believe wrongly:
http://www.wycombeairpark.co.uk/wycombe-air-park/facilities/fuel

AVGAS and UL91 includes VAT at 20%
Jet A1 includes VAT at 5%

AVGAS 100LL £1.79/litre
Jet A1 £0.75/litre

 

[Blue Sunray]

I did not have Atlantic crossings in mind.

That whooshing sound is the noise the point made as it passed over your head.

 

[chrishscorp]

After all, the government does not pay for the sea.. why should we the leisure boat owner pay for using it?

Quite so

Lets get rid of the SAR helios, the buoyage around our coastline, lighthouses and whats left of the Coastguard

 

[Blue Sunray]

Quite so

Lets get rid of the SAR helios, the buoyage around our coastline, lighthouses and whats left of the Coastguard

:encouragement:

 

[Tomahawk]

Quite so

Lets get rid of the SAR helios, the buoyage around our coastline, lighthouses and whats left of the Coastguard

Interesting idea..

Deep water navigation buoyage is funded by light dues to Trinity House don't ya know?
Harbour navigation is funded by your conservancy dues ..

In your sunlit uplands governed by EU diktats.. perhaps the SAR services should only come out for VAT paying boaters .. The fact that by far the majority of CG rescues are for idiot beach walkers who fall of cliffs and get trapped by rising tides will simply mean that the population is denuded of Darwin candidates in a hurry?

Or idiot beach walkers can start paying for their rescue?

 

[fisherman]

Just register and licence your boat for fishing. With your low kW power, and the lowest cost licence possible, which also requires no upkeep in terms of making landings, you should be quids in.....and you can land fish for profit if you catch any, use the pontoons in Newlyn at will, pick up 80% grants for safety and other gear etc etc.

What not to like?

 

[Tomahawk]

Your tails of MCA inspections for LSA amd everything else?

 

[fisherman]

Your tails of MCA inspections for LSA amd everything else?

...wellll....APART from all that....

 

[chrishscorp]

Interesting idea..

Deep water navigation buoyage is funded by light dues to Trinity House don't ya know?

Yes aware of that, but 'we' do not contribute to their cost do we, it is only commercial shipping