Gludy's New Mainsail Reefing System - Dispute

[Gludy]

By the way this is only one of recent issues with the builder.

The forgot to fit the RCD;s on a CE boat and the immersion heater went but the current stayed on with the result I was shocked three times with mains voltage and had to call into a marina and call an electrician - St Francis Marine were out of contact for over a week at the Miaimi show so i paid the qualified electrician to make the boat sage - now they will not pay the full bill. I consider that negligent and a contract cannot protect you from that so I have also claimed halt the marina fees whilst the repairs were being done some $800 USA and that was also declined.

 

[jhr]

Yes, I know is not an April Fools, I simply am astounded that he has problems with yet another boat.

I'm not . He's plainly a perfectionist and I fear that, by and large, that's a concept unknown to the Worldwide Marine Industry. You and I would shrug our shoulders and pay the bill, he doesn't.

I've said it before, and no offence to Gludy, but if I were a boatbuilder and I saw him coming into my showroom, I would close up the office for a few weeks and decamp to Latin America under an assumed name.

 

[pvb]

I'm not . He's plainly a perfectionist and I fear that, by and large, that's a concept unknown to the Worldwide Marine Industry. You and I would shrug our shoulders and pay the bill, he doesn't.

I've said it before, and no offence to Gludy, but if I were a boatbuilder and I saw him coming into my showroom, I would close up the office for a few weeks and decamp to Latin America under an assumed name.

I find it hard to comprehend how someone who's had so many new boat problems in the past would buy another one without employing a professional project manager or surveyor to oversee and sign-off the project prior to paying for it. Perhaps he just takes a perverse pleasure in conflict?

 

[Magnum]

I find it hard to comprehend how someone who's had so many new boat problems in the past would buy another one without employing a professional project manager or surveyor to oversee and sign-off the project prior to paying for it. Perhaps he just takes a perverse pleasure in conflict?

That's a bit harsh.

I think some of us just expect things to work reasonably well. When they don't it does come as a bit of a surprise. Gludy has standards and I admire him for that. I'm a bit like him too, which is why I'm taking Sunseeker to the High Court.

 

[Gludy]

It was not possible to employ a project manager in St Francis South Africa with any effect and yes I did trust this company a lot. They had a fantastic reputation. However there manager had just left and a few boat were built without him add that to an incredibly bad after sales service and you have the problem.

Most boat owners cover up even major problems in fear of reducing the value of their boat - I do not do that.

Every time you criticise the customer and not where the fault lies - the builder, you allow the lower standards to continue.

I am not alone with major problems the boat that came out before me has even bigger problems.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Weak Contracts Are To Blame, Not Owners Protecting The Boats Value

... Gludy has standards ....

This happens in all sorts of areas of life. Standards, especially if they are high are affronted with shoddy workmanship. Yet if personal standards and expectations are applied at the contract stage then most shoddy work can be avoided or dealt with.

The low standards are allowed to happen not because the owners cover up, but likely due to weak contracts being accepted by the buyers.

I have found that companies will accept additions, maybe even changes to their standard terms and conditions. You may have to pay for additional checks and controls, but everyone knows where they stand at the end of the day.

 

[Ubergeekian]

It was not possible to employ a project manager in St Francis South Africa with any effect and yes I did trust this company a lot.

Without wanting at all to be confrontational, I thought they had hardly built any boats? Or have I got it wrong and mixed up companies - is this Gideon?

 

[E39mad]

Have you accepted the boat and paid the final installment? - usually gets things moving when things are not correct.

The work is just shody - nothing else for it and from what I have seen those who say the OP is a perfectionist are wrong IMHO.

 

[pvb]

That's a bit harsh. I think some of us just expect things to work reasonably well. When they don't it does come as a bit of a surprise.

But is it harsh? After Gludy's experiences with the marine industry, aren't you surprised that he didn't ensure the boat was properly finished and signed-off by someone knowledgable before making the final payment?

 

[Bilgediver]

I've said it before, and no offence to Gludy, but if I were a boatbuilder and I saw him coming into my showroom, I would close up the office for a few weeks and decamp to Latin America under an assumed name.

I bet Tony Chappell wishes he had done just that

 

[bigwow]

Without wanting at all to be confrontational, I thought they had hardly built any boats? Or have I got it wrong and mixed up companies - is this Gideon?

No this company is well established having built more than Gideons 3 boats

 

[Gludy]

PVB
"But is it harsh? After Gludy's experiences with the marine industry, aren't you surprised that he didn't ensure the boat was properly finished and signed-off by someone knowledgable before making the final payment?"
My experience was with a man called Tony Chapell and at the time of that fight there were a few people who concentrated on me being the bad customers instead of him being the bad builder/rogue. Events were to show that I was right and sad to say more vistims followed before he was stopped.
I took a whole range of steps with St Francis ensuring they had resources and were not broke, contacting every customer. My experience with surveyors has not been great as they tend to look at a very restricted part of the whole boat and the famous Fastcat from Gideon that caused all the publicity was surveyed and passed only for all the problems to emerge after.

I think the reefing system is one thing a survey would have caught up on ... I do not think it would have done so with the other long list of problems.

Unless there is someone there to check very seal, every part of the boat as built it is virtually impossible to avoid the consequences of a bad build.

However the issue here is not all that - the only issue here is if the reefing ststem as described should be acceptable on a new boat. I am paying for it to be corrected and St Francis are happy with it. I just want the sailing world to know what standard of basic rigging St Francis are happy with.

 

[Gludy]

"No this company is well established having built more than Gideons 3 boats"
Near to 100 boats built before their manager left.
Great reputation - well financed.

 

[pvb]

I think the reefing system is one thing a survey would have caught up on ... I do not think it would have done so with the other long list of problems.

So, just to take another example you've posted in this thread, you don't think a surveyor would have realised the absence of RCDs?

 

[Gludy]

He may have but in my experience they tend to exclude engines, electronics and electrics.
In hindsight I wish the boat had been surveyed but even then most of the problems would not have surfaced until afterwards anyway.

However do you think that the standard of work is acceptable and one that a builder should be proud of? That is really the subject of this thread. After all I am paying a lot of money out to have the work corrected so I am paying for any lack of survey on my part but that in no way excuses the builder form their duty to supply a functional boat for for purpose. Do you agree?

 

[Magnum]

Yes I agree. Builders should build to an acceptable standard. Sadly it appears your vessel has not.

 

[Gludy]

Magnum
I have just checked to find you are soon to become a raggie!!!
Can I ask why the change?
If it is explained on another thread can you please point to it?

 

[pvb]

He may have but in my experience they tend to exclude engines, electronics and electrics.
In hindsight I wish the boat had been surveyed but even then most of the problems would not have surfaced until afterwards anyway.

However do you think that the standard of work is acceptable and one that a builder should be proud of? That is really the subject of this thread. After all I am paying a lot of money out to have the work corrected so I am paying for any lack of survey on my part but that in no way excuses the builder form their duty to supply a functional boat for for purpose. Do you agree?

I don't think the standard is great, but my point is that your experiences of new boats has apparently been so bad that I'm simply amazed that you'd go out and spend that sort of money on another new boat without ensuring that your investment is sound. Of course, you may just have a lot of money to splash around. Most of us don't, and would be very cautious in making sure we got what we were paying for - before we paid for it - rather than complaining afterwards.

 

[Stork_III]

Magnum
I have just checked to find you are soon to become a raggie!!!
Can I ask why the change?
If it is explained on another thread can you please point to it?

See this thread. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255054

 

[Gludy]

PVB
Butterfly the infamous Fastcat had a survey and yet had major problems since. A surbet is not by any means an insurance policy.

I spoke or emailed very previous owner I could - I researched and uncovered a great reputation with a well financed company. I did make a mistake as a newbie to the raggie part I trusted Duncan of St Francis - so instead of just concentrating on me why not answer the question I asked you directly?

The builder is charged with building the boat to a standard and if he fails to do that then of course I complain - would you not complain? You seem to imply that if you did not discover the fault before hand over then its all right you should not complain - an extreme position.

I did not think I would ever meet a builder like the Trader lot again and I have not - this builder has resources and is still in business. He has failed in his duty and I complain - that is the only way standards are met.

Did Magnum employ a project manager to oversee the build of his Sunseeker? If he did not then is he to blame for the major fault on that boat? Of course not. Sunseeker seems to have failed to provide a fit for purpose boat end of subject.