gestures!!!

[BustinAround]

Re: 10knt speed limit

I'm guessing its the area that the port authority has juristiction over... haven't seen it marked on charts, but the limits must be defined somewhere I suppose!

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[waterboy]

Re: 10knt speed limit

Oh what a lovely post. Let's start on the charter boats next.

<hr width=100% size=1>I never make the same mistake twice. I always make new ones.

 

[KevB]

Re: 10knt speed limit

Found it.

"The Dockyard Ports Regulation Act of 1865 vests in the Royal Navy extensive powers of control and management of the Harbour in the person of the Queen’s Harbour Master (QHM) who is the Harbour Authority. He is responsible for the movement control of all shipping within the Dockyard Port (which includes Portsmouth Harbour and extends east to Langstone Harbour, south to Nab Tower and west to Hillhead) and the provision of navigational aids and maintenance dredging. His authority is directed towards the freedom and safety of navigation whilst ensuring that the interests of the Ministry of Defence are properly protected."

Oops..../forums/images/icons/blush.gif


Hold on a minute....... How far off shore are the Dolphins? Oh dear!!


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[BrendanS]

Re: 10knt speed limit

3. For the purposes of the Act and of this Order the limits of the Dockyard Port of Portsmouth shall be as follows:
(a) On the east and south, a line from a point on the line of mean high-water springs at Eastney Point in latitude 50° 47’ 12” north longitude 01° 01’ 47” west on a true bearing of 120° for a distance of 2.50 nautical miles to a point in latitude 50° 45’ 57” north longitude 00° 58’ 22” west, thence on a true bearing of 187.5° for a distance of 7.83 nautical miles to a point in latitude 50° 38’ 12” north longitude 01° 00’00” west, thence on a true bearing of 270° for a distance of 6.40 nautical miles to a point on the line of mean high-water springs in Sandown Bay in latitude 50° 38’ 12” north longitude 01° 10’ 03” west.

(b) On the south west, the line of mean high-water springs along the eastern and northern shores of the Isle of Wight from the aforementioned point in Sandown Bay to a point at Old Castle Point in latitude 50° 45’ 56.3” north longitude 01° 16’ 28.0” west with all bays, creeks, lakes, pools and rivers as far as the tide flows between those points except that between Bembridge Point and Old St. Helen’s Church the limit of the Dockyard Port shall be the outer limit of Bembridge Harbour.

(c) On the west, a line from the aforementioned point at Old Castle Point on a true bearing of 000° for a distance of 0.14 nautical miles to a point in latitude 50° 46’ 04.7” north longitude 01° 16’ 28.0” west, thence on a true bearing of 022° for a distance of 3.15 nautical miles to a point on the line of mean high-water springs at Hillhead in latitude 50° 48’ 59.5” north longitude 01° 14’ 35.9” west.

(d) On the north, the line of mean high-water springs from the aforementioned point at Hillhead to the aforementioned point at Eastney Point in latitude 50° 47’ 12” north longitude 01° 01’ 47” west with all bays, creeks, lakes, pools and rivers as far as the tide flows between those points except that in Ports Creek the north east limit of the Dockyard Port shall be the western side of the railway bridge in approximately latitude 50° 50’ 00” north longitude 01° 03’ 10” west.

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[Observer]

It was the 'rule' up until this year that Ballast Buoy should be left to port on leaving and to starboard on entering. QHM issued a new LNTM at the beginning of this year making it 'leave to port leaving and entering'. You're just not quite up to date.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://aflcharters.co.uk>Dream Dancer</A>

 

[bob_tyler]

Re: Speeding!

"But in case you're worried it applies to speed through water not speed over ground"

Can anyone confirm that? Where is that laid down?

I have always considered it to be over the ground ie SOG.

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[nicho]

Thanks, I was sure there was something to that effect, though not sure enough to argue!!

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[Rabbie]

Its not just the big ones!

Priory Bay/Seaview : Remember those nice quiet weekend afternoons, cockpit snoozing after lunch. Well they seem to have been replaced by RIB Hell!. Usually crewed by teenage lads, clad only in ludicrous long baggy pants, who know only 2 throttle settings on their over-powered wee boats - and idle isn't one of them!. If you study them closely, and you can easily do so as they roar past your anchored vessel some 20 feet away. You will see that their focus is ahead only and NEVER changes . I think this is a Mobo driver requirement?. If their object is to drive real sailors away, then in my case they have succeeded. Hand gestures?. Why bother, they're not looking. All this boils down to basic good manners which appear to this wrinklie to have all but disappeared over the past generation.

<hr width=100% size=1>A day not spent on my boat is a day in my life wasted.

 

[tome]

Re: Speeding!

This is correct IMO, though I cannot find a specific reference. Since GPS is a relatively new technology, and it was previously impossible to accurately measure SOG all harbour speed limits are by convention speed through the water regardless of the tide.

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[duncan]

Re: Speeding!

interesting Tom - I am pretty sure Poole harbour's 10knot is SOG, and that is because it is a safety issue not a wash/wake one. It's 6 knot limit is however a no wake limit and for most small craft that means a lot less into the tide!Additionally it only applies to craft under power, and most don't have any way of knowing speed through the water other than SOG + or - an allowance for tide!
Finally mesurement by a remote third party by radar or the like will only mesure SOG.
Chichesters 8 knots is a bit of both (safety/wash) but again I understood this to be a SOG.

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[tome]

Re: Speeding!

Duncan

So how about an 8 knot harbour speed limit in a harbour with a 5 knot ebb (not unusual, eg Chichester). If SOG cannot exceed 8 knots, then you're down to 3 knots WSP. Bit of a tall order to sail at such a low speed? I never have.

I believe this is why there can be few prosecutions. The ground-based radar needs accurate tidal input to establish WSP, so you'd have to be winging it beyond doubt to get caught.

Incidentally, I believe Yarmouth has an inner limit of 4 knots. It's a tidal area - imagine the implications of interpreting this as SOG. You'd never get in.

Regards
Tom



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[jimi]

Re: Speeding!

& Cowes - 6 knots .. at the Buoy where its sigh posted there can be almost 6 knots of tide.

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[duncan]

Re: Speeding!

I agree with your interpretation in these circumstances but was concerned over the generalisation re 'harbours'.
As I said the Chichester 8 knots is a bit of an inbetween - wash/safety but does the limit apply to sailpowered craft?
Yarmouth definitely falls into the wash camp but no one is going to stop a craft maintaining steerage in either situation - even on the Norfolk Broads!

<hr width=100% size=1>madesco madidum ..../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[KevB]

Re: Speeding!

I am sure the 8 knot limit in Chichester Harbour only applies to vessels under power and not under sail alone.

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[KevB]

Re: 10knt speed limit

And in English that means....? Sorry paper stuff is on the boat.

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[gjeffery]

Re: Speeding!

The Chicester bylaw restricts speed to 8 knots through the water, so I suspect that a blind eye is turned to dinghies "on the plane". Fortunately, the Conservancy is similarly myopic when assessing the length of assymetric rigged dinghies for the purpose of harbour dues.

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[KevB]

Re: Speeding!

In the Chi Harbour conservancy byelaws (section5) it only states that power driven vessels should not exceed 8 knots through, on or over the water?

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[BrendanS]

Re: 10knt speed limit

See red lines I've superimposed on the image

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<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[KevB]

Re: 10knt speed limit

Thanks for that. So does that mean that if you are less than 1000mtrs from land anywhere inside your red lines then the speed limit is 10 knots?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>

 

[BrendanS]

Re: 10knt speed limit

As far as I understand it, yes (yards though, not metres, though not a great deal of difference). Maybe QHM might like to speak authoritatively on the matter, he pops in here sometimes

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