Gazzumped!

[cngarrod]

Saw a boat i quite liked the look of last week on the web so phoned the owner and decided that it would be worth a look.

The owner hadn't had any interest as yet and agreed to to give me first refusal. He also advised that he would call me if anyone else made an offer.

I was fortunate to have cash for the purchase and advised the vendor as such, also that i was serious and not wasting his time. However due to family comitments, i could not get down to see the boat until this coming saturday.

Had a survey carried out on tuesday, to be delivered to me today. Called the vendor last night and left a message checking his address.

When he called me back he told me he had sold the boat yesterday without calling me etc.

Can i take him to court to get my survey money back?

Anyone know?

Cheers,

Craig.

 

[burgundyben]

dunno, tricky one, you'll get lots of advice, this is where buying via a broker gives you some benefit as these things are laid out in a contract, that said I am in the process of taking a broker to court to recover a survey fee over the boat being misrepresented, how much was survey? might be better to let it go, small claims court is very slow and irritating process, also sometimes when u win u then have to get attachments to earnings and end up getting 5 quid a week for 400 years

In my case the boat I ended up buying was with the broker I am taking to court so managed to track down owner and buy direct, normal procedure I think is to pay 10% deposit which holds obat for 14 (think) days to give you chance for survey

good luck

 

[tcm]

Re: hard luck

not a hope. but good news that people are fighting over boats. Some recession huh?

 

[claymore]

Rotten Sod
Don't think so.
Perhaps giving him a smack round the ear might make you feel better?
js

 

[david_e]

Smack on his haemeroids(?) might make him feel better as well as he must be a complete a*******e to pull cunning stunt like that.

Question that goes through mind is how did the surveyor gain access and is it not reasonable to expect him to tell the surveyor of the other party's interest. In times like this I would be calling the RYA as part of my membership with them.

Assuming you want your money back then it is worth applying the pressure as you have some form of contract, he will not want the aggro and he has just got full money for his boat so he will have a few quid in the bank. Get in touch with the surveyor see what he has to say, and then go for the vendor.

I have looked at a number of boats in the last few months and always ask if it has been surveyed, they don't have to tell the truth but most do. That will give an indication of the level of interest and what I call the condition to value ratio.

Let us know the outcome either way, good luck.

 

[KevB]

Maybe worth waiting to see the survey, the boat might have been crap anyway.

 

[claymore]

For the defence

A quid dans la poche is better than.....

 

[KevB]

Re: For the defence

two in the bush??

 

[jfm]

Suggested solicitors letter

Even if he has done something wrong (eg breaching a contract) it would be a waste of time suing because the only remedy available to you is ££ for your losses. But you haven't actually suffered any loss in the strict legal sense, so you wont get any £££. All his actions stopped you doing was buying a boat at market value on the open market, so you have not suffered any loss because you still have the money. I appreciate how pissed off you are and I dont condone his actions at all, all I'm saying is that in the strict legal sense you are not entitled to any £££ so not worth pursuing.

If you want to play hardball and have the stomach for it, do the following. This should only be done if the new buyer has not taken delivery of the boat nor paid the full price yet (it's ok if he has paid a deposit). It's not worth doing if the new buyer has paid fully and actually taken delivery/possession of the boat:

1. find name'address of the new buyer
2. Write a solicitors letter (NOT headed "without prejudice" to the new buyer saying.........

"Dear Bloggs,
POSSIBLE LEGAL PROBLEMS REGARDING JOLLY ROGER
our client cngarrod entered into a contract last week with Mr Vendor, whereunder cngarrod has the right of first refusal over the boat Jolly Roger. This means that my client cngarrod will be purchasing Jolly Roger if he is satisfied with the written results (expected shortly) of a survey that was carried out last week by a mrine surveyor.

It has come to our attention that you may be in negotiations with Mr Vendor to purchase Jolly Roger. We are writing to you to let you know of our client's pre-existing first refusal right to buy Jolly Roger. Our client is very keen to exercise his first refusal right, if the survey is satisfactory, and if he does that you might be left in a difficult position. You should consult your own solicitor about this. If for example you have already paid a deposit to purchase Jolly Roger, my client can still exercise his refusal right and that could leave you trying to get a refund of your deposit while not being able to buy Jolly Roger. Or it could lead to a dispute as to whether my client or you is the person who is buying Jolly Roger, and again you might be out of pocket having paid your deposit. Either way, if you proceed with trying to purchase Jolly Roger you could suffer significant financial loss and/or become involved in a complex legal dispute with the associated legal costs and solicitors fees.

We appreciate this may come as unwelcome news but we felt it approriate to tell you our view as to the legal position, as soon as possible. Please contact us or ask your solicitor to contact us if you want to discuss this furhter.

Yours sincerely etc"

 

[claymore]

Re: Suggested solicitors letter

I spoke with the Hon F Taylor - lecturer in Law here. He reckoned that perhaps if you have said "Yes, I'll have it - subject to survey" there's possibly some kind of case - he then went off mumbling about verbal contracts not being worth the paper their written on - which made me think he'd fit in rather well as a forum member. He has no boat and knows absolutely nothing about them which really made me feel he'd be ideally suited to the Motorboatie chat room - what do you think?
regards
Johns S

 

[paulineb]

Re: Suggested solicitors letter

Didn't think you had laws in Scotland, I thought it was total anarchy up there. And anyway, don't you have some funny sort of procreator fishface or something ? ;-)

Pxx

 

[jfm]

Re: Suggested solicitors letter

Hon F Taylor is right but he misses the point. Yes, on his analysis, there is a contract, maybe. And the other guy breached it, maybe. But what has cngarrod lost (in the strict legal sense)? Answer nothing. So what's he gonna sue for? Answer = reimbursement of nothing

In a case like this, law isn't about fine legal principles, it's about winning. So forget the theory and go for the hardball approach, send the gazumper a letter like I said so he pulls out and the bad guy then loses.

Hon F Taylor most welcome to join BB. Sounds eminently qualified. Tell him to sign up!!

 

[paulineb]

Re: Suggested solicitors letter

But he is out of pocket isn't he, for the survey fees? Or should I go back to my kittens ?

Pxx

 

[david_e]

Re: For the defence

Maybe so, but the honourable thing would be to refund the survey fee. Wiser to post the cheque than hand it over personally.

I wonder if the vendor is a forum member?

 

[BarryD]

At the risk of being soundly thrashed by the rest of the board - you were waiting for survey to decide to buy the boat and the other buyer has presumable said "that's great I'll have it" and plonked their money down.

So as a seller who to go for? The chap waiting for the survey (which may show up some things that need fixing?) or the guy waving fivers under my nose. Course you had first refusal on the boat but nothing in writing. I rather take the ready money than the off-chance of money. It's hard enough to sell in the current climate.

The process should surely be:
See the boat (magazine, paper etc..), offer subject to survey & sea trial, deposit, survey & sea trial, balance.

You committed to a spend when you had not secured the asset or had a contract in place so you took the risk and in this case lost. Had you paid a deposit or had a contract in place that covered your risk then all the better.

I can only hope (seriouslly) that the survey is poor and you'd have walked away anyway.

IMHO & FWIW of course.

Barry D

 

[david_e]

...and then give the other guy his survey money back 'cause you know what you have done, everyone is happy then (relatively speaking)

 

[jfm]

Re: dont get angry get even

Yes, I ignored the survey fee becuase it's difficult to sue for them for lots of reasons, and they're probly small, so small claims court is the only route, which is a waste of time imho becuase the maximum legal fees you can recover is £70 which is much less than the true solicitors cost so not worth it imho.

Really, it's better to forget the technical legal niceties like getting a small survey fee back. Much better to fire cruise missiles like I suggested. I mean, do you want to win the legal argument, or just win? all IMHO, and apologies if Wall Street Lawyer character defect showing through ;-)

 

[claymore]

Re: Suggested solicitors letter

Got me again - lost for words!!
jsx

 

[tcm]

Re: error in line 1 above

er who is gonna tellim the name and address of gazumper? Not vendor, not broker, not anyone imho. Get wife to ring in floods of tears to say husband dead so keep the boat,stay in floods of tears through the questionning of who it is and mebbe she'll tell u, also mebbe the broker/vendor will phone up. I have never heard of this working, ever. Does Compass sell cruise missiles?

 

[cngarrod]

Guys / Gals!

Thank you for the moral support.. much apprecaited.. i can see all the points raised here and believe truly that i should put it down to expereince... and hope that as the guy was selling his boat due to redundancy.. he has to wait an eternity before he can get another boat!

I am out of pocket by a few quid... and when i get the report i will find enough defects in it to convince myself that the bloke who purchased it got stiffed good and hard!

However, if either or them should happen to walk past me when i am in the car.. my foot might just slip off the brake!

That's life and s*!t happens!!!

As for whether he is a forum member.. i don't think so.. unless he is one of the un-identified viewers!!!

Cheers,

Craig.