Furler problems

[steveeasy]

At long last I’ve got the boat in the water.lots of work and planned to set off in the morning for a weeks sailing. Had the mast off to fit a new ring and had a good check over all of the fittings.
Wind dropped and tried to put the Genoa on. Got the thing on and the Furler won’t turn. Jammed solid. Pulled the Genoa off and she turns ok. The luff was not tensioned. I did check the top of the forestry when the rig was down. Looked fine no sign of twist.
The Furler is not that old. I’ve popped a couple of images up. They might just be the right orientation. And words of wisdom. No my Nickers are not twisted and I’m not having a hissy but round here you ask people to help sort stuff and the only response you get is, oh we don’t do that,or this or anything.
Can’t recal how the forestry attaches at top of mast.
Any idears

Steveeasy

 

[mikegunn]

If the luff is not tensioned it is possible for the halyard to be carried around the head of the genoa, preventing further rotation when unfurling. It’s called halyard wrap.
Mike

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If the luff is not tensioned it is possible for the halyard to be carried around the head of the genoa, preventing further rotation when unfurling. It’s called halyard wrap.
Mike

Tensioned or not, in fact, though it happens more easily if it’s not. Binoculars are the tool needed to see what's happening up there. Ours is odd and sulky, it doesn’t like to turn when the rig is under tension, I have to release the mainsheet. And ours is almost brand new, Autumn 2022. It’s stiffer with the jib under tension, but obviously not rock solid. Also, ours is exactly the same as the OP’s. (Apart from having stainless drum retainers, we have the multihull add on kit.).

So, get it up there again in light wind. Put your normal tension on the halyard, it’s going to have to work with that anyway. Check the lead of the halyard, hopefully you’ve got that plastic widget that is meant to catch the halyard fitted at the top of the foil? Then try and furl it, or get someone else to whilst you watch the top with the binns.

Remember, you can alter the angle the halyard meets the foil, or rather the sliding swivel, by the height you hoist the sail. If it needs to go further up the foil to make the halyard angle less parallel to the foil, so be it. Tension it at the foot with a bit of line. You might even get a glimpse of the water under the foot if it's high, whats not to like unless you’re a dedicated racer.

 

[Daydream believer]

My friends had the same problem. The rigger had fitted a non standard screw in the lower drum. When there was no load the drum dropped down & it rotated freely. When a small load applied it raised up & caught on the screw , thus locking the drum in 180 degree notches. Replacing the screw sorted the issue.
On my boat the plastic bit meant to stop halyard wrap, at the head, on both my old Facnor & my new Profurl, was useless. I have a mast aligner fitted to the mast which keeps it well clear. I also ensure that the spinnaker halyard is tight because it exits slightly above the jib one & can get wrapped in the whole lot.
Your picture does not even show the standard plastic disc so halyard wrap would be the first point of call
One year I had problems & it turned out that the pop rivets that held the foil to the bottom part where the final length adjustment was made, had worn the holes & fallen out. By standing on the dock wall at Dover at LW I could see that the foil had moved up & was jamming on the upper shackle thus preventing rotation. There was no way I could see this from below. The solution was to pull the foil back down, drill new holes ( without drilling the wire) & pop rivetting it back in place

 

[steveeasy]

Thanks. Gives me food for thought. It was tight when furling last year but I put that down to a large Genoa. Something is not right.

Steveeasy

 

[mrangry]

That looks like a pro furl system which I have, fitted to many older Beneteaus. As others have said, check with binoculars when tensioned and trying to unfurl. Also check for bearing play in the drum and swivel before hoisting sail.

I take it that it furled okay when you furled the sail away, it just wont unfurl?

 

[steveeasy]

Just had another look at it. Was going to put a line between bottom drum and top swivel and tension it to replicate sail. But having looked at top swivel it’s quite stiff to rotate. The bearing is certainly not loose, more like it’s stiff to turn. Can’t see any greasing points. More like sealed unit.
Steveeasy

 

[steveeasy]

That looks like a pro furl system which I have, fitted to many older Beneteaus. As others have said, check with binoculars when tensioned and trying to unfurl. Also check for bearing play in the drum and swivel before hoisting sail.

I take it that it furled okay when you furled the sail away, it just wont unfurl?

No infact stiff to furl last year. Top swivel is quite stiff to rotate the inner bearing. Not loose like a Furlex but tight stiff.

Steveeasy

 

[mrangry]

Just had another look at it. Was going to put a line between bottom drum and top swivel and tension it to replicate sail. But having looked at top swivel it’s quite stiff to rotate. The bearing is certainly not loose, more like it’s stiff to turn. Can’t see any greasing points. More like sealed unit.
Steveeasy

It sounds like the bearings are shot, I replaced them in the swivel and drum unit and they werent expensive, I bought them plus the seals from an online bearing supplier for about £70

If you need a quick fix now you could try some penetrating lubricant but ultimately you will have to remove the two units and replace the bearings and seals. You will need a good sturdy set of circlip pliers to remove the recessed circlips that hold the bearings in place.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

No infact stiff to furl last year. Top swivel is quite stiff to rotate the inner bearing. Not loose like a Furlex but tight stiff.

Steveeasy

Our top swivel is the same, I have wondered if that is why the whole system is so ‘tight’. Wish I’d paid the extra for Harken. Mrs C cannot hand furl the jib, she has to winch it. I can do it, but it’s not easy.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

It sounds like the bearings are shot, I replaced them in the swivel and drum unit and they werent expensive, I bought them plus the seals from an online bearing supplier for about £70

If you need a quick fix now you could try some penetrating lubricant but ultimately you will have to remove the two units and replace the bearings and seals. You will need a good sturdy set of circlip pliers to remove the circlips that hold the bearings in place.

Having installed ours myself recently, the top swivel is like that in the box. It’s smooth, but very stiff to turn by hand. The bearings are not damaged.

 

[mrangry]

Having installed ours myself recently, the top swivel is like that in the box. It’s smooth, but very stiff to turn by hand. The bearings are not damaged.

I removed my furler initially as when approaching the marina I couldnt furl the sail as it was stiff/jammed solid so had to drop it. Once dis assembled I noticed that the bearings were rusty and pitted.

With new bearings installed and greased the unit operates easily and has done for the last 2 years.

 

[steveeasy]

well I can imagine with a stiff top swivel once tensioned or not like last night. You get a twist. This stops being unable to fuel like last night.
I then tried to pull the sail off and stuck. Because of a twist at top (like last night)

So the question is then is the top swivel supposed to be stiff(inner bearing) can’t believe so , but it feels like it’s hydrolically locked.

Steveeasy

 

[Refueler]

More interested in the top of furler when sail is hoisted ....

There are a number of reasons that furlers can jam up due to top ...

1. Insufficient angle of halyard to furler ... generally 10 - 15 degrees is enough on a good easy turn furler.
2. Too much distance from top swivel to halyard entry to mast.... short luff sail.
3. Forestay too slack - causing binding inside furler. Also when furling or sheet pulled to furl / unfurl - furler curves under tension and binds.

> 1. My 25ft boat has a second diameter line to a block on mast front to bring it out from furler and prevent halyard wrap :

Extreme - but having gone through all the halyard diverters / doughnuts etc. - this cured it 100%. Other boats I have passed this idea to have also done it and success. BUT this is no solution to a bad furler setup.

>2. My 38ft boat - all foresails are about 20cm short and halyard does not get the 10+ deg angle needed ... so I have a 20cm tape pendant from head of sail to top swivel - which then brings swivel higher and halyard now has the angle.

 

[mrangry]

well I can imagine with a stiff top swivel once tensioned or not like last night. You get a twist. This stops being unable to fuel like last night.
I then tried to pull the sail off and stuck. Because of a twist at top (like last night)

So the question is then is the top swivel supposed to be stiff(inner bearing) can’t believe so , but it feels like it’s hydrolically locked.

Steveeasy

I think when under load this is when a worn or pitted bearing will seem to lock and be very difficult to turn. Also the load from the halyard is on one side at the top which will exagerate the friction

 

[Refueler]

Tensioned or not, in fact, though it happens more easily if it’s not. Binoculars are the tool needed to see what's happening up there. Ours is odd and sulky, it doesn’t like to turn when the rig is under tension, I have to release the mainsheet. And ours is almost brand new, Autumn 2022. It’s stiffer with the jib under tension, but obviously not rock solid. Also, ours is exactly the same as the OP’s. (Apart from having stainless drum retainers, we have the multihull add on kit.).

So, get it up there again in light wind. Put your normal tension on the halyard, it’s going to have to work with that anyway. Check the lead of the halyard, hopefully you’ve got that plastic widget that is meant to catch the halyard fitted at the top of the foil? Then try and furl it, or get someone else to whilst you watch the top with the binns.

Remember, you can alter the angle the halyard meets the foil, or rather the sliding swivel, by the height you hoist the sail. If it needs to go further up the foil to make the halyard angle less parallel to the foil, so be it. Tension it at the foot with a bit of line. You might even get a glimpse of the water under the foot if it's high, whats not to like unless you’re a dedicated racer.

Yes - hoist sail to max by using a line at foot (tack) ... BUT that is not final answer because now your sail is higher up ... so measure that length of line needed to have full hoist ... that then becomes the length of PERMANENT pendant to add to HEAD of sail ..... which brings tack of sail back down to original position ... top swivel is now at height to get angle on halyard.

 

[steveeasy]

Our top swivel is the same, I have wondered if that is why the whole system is so ‘tight’. Wish I’d paid the extra for Harken. Mrs C cannot hand furl the jib, she has to winch it. I can do it, but it’s not easy.

Sounds like mine. I’ve had to winch to fuel. Put it down to other reasons but perhaps not.

My old Selden furlex was a breeze for years and must have been nr 20 yes old

Steveeasy

 

[Refueler]

Mine - not same brand - but lets be honest = principle is same and many faults are common ...

1. Old / worn out bearings
2. Salt and crud making top swivel and lower drum bind
3. Lack of use and furler binding
4. Halyard wrap
5. Forestay tension

are just the common ones ....

1 - is solved by servicing.
2. Hottish but not boiling fresh water poured over top swivel and drum ... repeated a few times to wash the crud out ... then recc'd lubrication ... if not - then a maybe small drop of 3in1 or light cycle oil ... NOT WD40 or grease !!
3. Use and #2 ...
4. See above post
5. Set forestay to usual tension for a hanked on sail ... IMHO.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think when under load this is when a worn or pitted bearing will seem to lock and be very difficult to turn. Also the load from the halyard is on one side at the top which will exagerate the friction

Look, I’ve got the same furler. It’s not the bearing, they are like it from new. Mine is the same now as when I installed it, I last had it in my hand 3 weeks ago.

 

[steveeasy]

Look, I’ve got the same furler. It’s not the bearing, they are like it from new. Mine is the same now as when I installed it, I last had it in my hand 3 weeks ago.

Points taken. Seams odd though to have so much friction. Can only increase the risk of a wrap if the halyard is not under tension.

Steveeasy