Fulmar & Twister Owners: Opinions please!

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Hi Everyone,

I'm 25 from UK and have a modest budget of £20k. Looking for a safe, comfortable cruising boat that's still enjoyable to sail for a dinghy sailor! Something that can accommodate a couple and be used for stints as a liveaboard without being too cramped..

After too many evenings spent looking at stuff in this price range the boats I'm drawn to are the Twister 28 & the Fulmar fin keel.. Both look like rewarding boats to sail & have plenty of charm despite being very different from each other.

We'll be cruising the Solent initially, but have dreams to make passages and see the world when ready.
I've spent plenty of time on Lasers/ Wayfarers etc. but little experience with boats of this type so any experience would be good to hear!

Twister 28: (GRP hull, wooden coach-roof)
Very pretty boat. Her lines below the water are inherently reassuring to someone with aspirations of taking the boat far. She looks a great balance of speed, security & simplicity with lots of varnishing to keep on top of! The only drawback is possibly being too small for our needs long term.

Westerly Fulmar (fin keel):
A gin palace in comparison! The beamy, floating caravan nature of the fulmar obviously has it's appeal to us and owners seem to love them. Looks fast & comparatively good in light airs, but ultimate seaworthiness when it matters does concern me.

Bolt on keel & spade rudder suggest that we may not be able to do all the things we'd like to with a Fulmar? I don't want to make this decision again & sell her for something more suited to offshore work 2 years down the line.

I guess the basis of my question is: how much faith do you Fulmar owners have in the design, It's ability to safely cross oceans & look after you?
Of course I'm aware the boats condition & how it's fitted out play a massive role in this. but if we can just stick to the inherent designs that would be helpful.

Pete

 

[dunedin]

Get the Fulmar - spacious, fast, fun and very seaworthy. Take it anywhere - as Concerto conspires to prove by bashing around Orkney and Shetland in bad weather

 

[mrming]

I’m a fin keel Fulmar owner. If you’re 25 and this is your first “big” boat you’ll probably end up with something much bigger than both by the time you go ocean voyaging. For now, either will be great for mid range passages to France, Channel Islands, the Baltic etc. The Fulmar is faster and more comfortable, but the Twister is more charming. While you’re doing mid range stuff, you’re very unlikely to be caught out in anything that would truly test either boat, owing to the accuracy of modern 48-72hr weather forecasts.

 

[geem]

Fulmar. One friend took his across the pond and back singlehanded. Multiple trips to to Portugal and back. Ditto another friend doing the same trips to the Algarve regularly. Another couple sailed one extensively for years. When they retired they opted for a larger Beneteau and regretted their decision. They said it just wasn't as good in bad weather

 

[ridgy]

Fulmar all day. I once had an Elizabethan 29, similar to a twister and now have something similar to a Fulmar. Better in every way.

 

[Concerto]

Fulmar every day. It beats the Twister in so many ways from very easy to sail having a 3/4 rig, faster under sail making longer passages hours shorter, comfortable ride in all weathers, vast interior, greater storage space, larger tankage, more modern hull design, more powerful engine, etc, etc, etc. The only advantage the Twister has is a better row away factor. Both designs are classics of their age but the Fulmar design is a generation later. To sum up - chalk and cheese.

Yes, I am biased as Fulmar owner but the previous comments all agree, so do I need to say more. Have a look at my about me page (https://forums.ybw.com/members/concerto.147919/#about) for lots of links, but this short video of my boat will give you a good idea what a fully renovated Fulmar looks like.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

"ultimate seaworthiness when it matters does concern me."

What exactly does this mean? .... most likely the plethora of available numbers which try to determine which boat is the "safest". It's a bit like the crash safety ratings for cars, drive the safest rated car into a tree at 70 mph and it will be curtains. The same is true of boats.

What does this mean in practice? The 79 Fastnet or the 98 Sydney to Hobart are probably the best examples of where a large number of boats were subject to extreme conditions. Not what any sensible cruiser would go out in by choice. Survival at this level is a lottery where your odds are most likely to be improved by your own preparations, experience, and actions rather than any individual aspects of your boat. The Sydney Hobart was won on handicap by AFR Midnight Rambler, a Hick 35, not what your average old salt would describe as the "ultimate seaworthy boat" .... it survived and won due to the ability and decision making of the skipper and crew, similarly, in the 79 Fastnet, Assent, a Contessa 32 didn't panic and just kept on sailing to become the only boat in it's class to finish. Both were lucky in that neither experienced the conditons that disabled other boats. Survival at sea is like a duck race, some will survive, and some will not.



To improve your chances in that lottery, work on your seamanship first ... and there are things you can bo to any boat to make it more survivable. Keep the boat well maintained, invest in good quality safety equipment, but most of all, gain experience in increasingly challenging conditions over time.

From the two boats you mention, I would definately go for the Westerly, better to live with in every sense and in the real world, no less "seaworthy" than the Twister.

 

[awol]

I would avoid a Twister with a wooden coachroof, though leaks are not inevitable they need regular maintenance. The Fulmar, for a dinghy sailor, won't be much "fun". I wonder what else I could recommend ?

 

[doug748]

Hi Everyone,

I'm 25 from UK and have a modest budget of £20k. Looking for a safe, comfortable cruising boat that's still enjoyable to sail for a dinghy sailor! Something that can accommodate a couple and be used for stints as a liveaboard without being too cramped..

After too many evenings spent looking at stuff in this price range the boats I'm drawn to are the Twister 28 & the Fulmar fin keel.. Both look like rewarding boats to sail & have plenty of charm despite being very different from each other.

We'll be cruising the Solent initially, but have dreams to make passages and see the world when ready.
I've spent plenty of time on Lasers/ Wayfarers etc. but little experience with boats of this type so any experience would be good to hear!

Twister 28: (GRP hull, wooden coach-roof)
Very pretty boat. Her lines below the water are inherently reassuring to someone with aspirations of taking the boat far. She looks a great balance of speed, security & simplicity with lots of varnishing to keep on top of! The only drawback is possibly being too small for our needs long term.

Westerly Fulmar (fin keel):
A gin palace in comparison! The beamy, floating caravan nature of the fulmar obviously has it's appeal to us and owners seem to love them. Looks fast & comparatively good in light airs, but ultimate seaworthiness when it matters does concern me.

Bolt on keel & spade rudder suggest that we may not be able to do all the things we'd like to with a Fulmar? I don't want to make this decision again & sell her for something more suited to offshore work 2 years down the line.

I guess the basis of my question is: how much faith do you Fulmar owners have in the design, It's ability to safely cross oceans & look after you?
Of course I'm aware the boats condition & how it's fitted out play a massive role in this. but if we can just stick to the inherent designs that would be helpful.

Pete

Boat prices have tumbled, you should be able to buy a magnificent example of either boat for 20k. Expect a good replacement engine Beta or similar. Here is Fulmar's smaller sister asking 5k:

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/westerly-konsort-for-sale/802637

I have also seen Fulmars and similar asking c 6/7k. Just examples - and all of these boats will have problems of one sort or another but the point is not to overpay in the present market.

Of the two, the Fulmar is probably the better option for you. I agree with awol, avoid the composite Twister unless you have specialist skills, it's probably a finer sea boat but, in many ways, that's a small part of the equation. You might also look at Sadler 32's and even 34's.

.

 

[KevinV]

I would avoid a Twister with a wooden coachroof, though leaks are not inevitable they need regular maintenance. The Fulmar, for a dinghy sailor, won't be much "fun". I wonder what else I could recommend ?

Sigma 33, UFO 34? Beneteau First?

Out of the two choices in the OP it'd be the Fulmar every time, but setting your heart on one particular model in a relatively small market is a great way to get a bad deal.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Sun Odyssey 29.2, Hanse 292,300,301, Sunfast 32, Elan 295, Dufour 30 Classic .... in the current market all could be available at the top end of your budget.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Agree with the vast majority of people. Fulmar every time. Get a good example and ignore the allegations that the Twister is a better sea boat. A well found Fulmar will look after you just as well. It’s your seamanship that matters.

Fulmars actually sail really nicely. They were often used as sailing school boats in their day. And not because they were gentle plodders. A perfect boat to cut your cruising teeth on IMHO.

 

[mrming]

I would avoid a Twister with a wooden coachroof, though leaks are not inevitable they need regular maintenance. The Fulmar, for a dinghy sailor, won't be much "fun". I wonder what else I could recommend ?

The Fulmar has a tiller and a relatively big mainsail. I’m an ex dinghy, and current yacht racer and I find it fun to sail upwind. Downwind in light airs it needs a gennaker or kite to get moving.

 

[geem]

Sigma 33, UFO 34? Beneteau First?

Out of the two choices in the OP it'd be the Fulmar every time, but setting your heart on one particular model in a relatively small market is a great way to get a bad deal.

Nope. Fulmar everytime.

 

[steve yates]

I’m not a twister owner, I have a longbow, but I sail a twister often on west coast of Scotland.
The twister is stand out a better looking boat, and if I was unlucky enough to be caught offshore in a storm, I would rather be in the twister.
And while I have never sailed a fulmar, the twister sails like a witch.
BUT, I would never buy one, I much prefer my longbow
The Fulmar will fit far more of your criteria and be much more pleasurable to spend time in or live in.
The twister is just too cramped below and lacks storage. The fuel and water tanks are relatively small, which could be an issue for long passages as a couple.
And your height matters, if you’re around 6ft the forepeak is too small to stretch out properly on the bunk.

 

[john_morris_uk]

The Fulmar has a tiller and a relatively big mainsail. I’m an ex dinghy, and current yacht racer and I find it fun to sail upwind. Downwind in light airs it needs a gennaker or kite to get moving.

Don’t all boats need more sail area going down wind? The apparent wind drops and it’s simple physics. It’s only when you get up to really high-performance racing boats where the apparent wind is always forward of the beam that things are different and gennakers and such like start to be employed. The OP isn’t going to be troubled by these highfalutin things in a Westerley Fulmar. They’re great boats to sail and as an ex dinghy sailor he will enjoy it.

 

[billskip]

Get the Fulmar

Yes, but I think the bilge keel offers more, still pretty fast and very seaworthy, I've sailed both, fin in the Solent, and bilge keel out of Hoath. I think I'd go for the bilge because it can take the ground giving a lot more parking options.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I don’t know where all this ‘caught out in the storm language’ comes from. The sort of bad weather he may be unlucky enough to encounter will be a summer gale which will be unpleasant but both the Fulmar and the Twister are equally capable of riding out such weather. Both boats have crossed oceans, but the Fulmar will be infinitely more comfortable to live on.

 

[mrming]

Don’t all boats need more sail area going down wind? The apparent wind drops and it’s simple physics. It’s only when you get up to really high-performance racing boats where the apparent wind is always forward of the beam that things are different and gennakers and such like start to be employed. The OP isn’t going to be troubled by these highfalutin things in a Westerley Fulmar. They’re great boats to sail and as an ex dinghy sailor he will enjoy it.

I own an Fulmar and like it. It’s just an observation. It’s relatively heavy and not that quick downwind (kite or not) in light airs, compared to some of the other suggestions - e.g. the Sun Fast 32. As the OP is focused on seaworthiness, I agree it’s not a problem.

 

[LittleSister]

Don't get too obsessed by particular models. There will be a wide range of boats that will satisfy your needs. Condition and kit (and the kit's condition) is hugely important, as is price and proximity for viewing.

Getting 'into' particular models is an almost inevitable part of the process, so I'm not knocking that, but don't let it close your mind to other possibilities. When you start viewing boats in earnest, do look at some other types that might fit your bill. Even if they don't grab you, they will almost certainly have features and characteristics (good or bad) that will help you view examples of your favoured models with greater discernment.

Whichever boat your buy will inevitably lead to you developing and refining your tastes and ambitions. You will probably soon start thinking your next boat will be more of this and less of that, etc.

Good luck and happy hunting.