Fulmar & Twister Owners: Opinions please!

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geem said:
Pointing ability comes with draft. You don't see race boats with short keels or twin keels. It is possible that the Moody fin keels were not a particularly good design but I doubt it. More likely you just sailed better on the day
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I agree with that but most of us aren't going to buy boats with deep draught high aspect bulb keels built for racing. On a return trip from Portugal, we sailed in company with another Moody 376 from Viana do Castelo to the top of Chenal du Four, where we parted company. We have a shallow draught (4'6") scheel keel which is very low aspect but long by more modern standards and the other boat had a 12" deeper more traditional fin keel. No noticeable difference in performance over that distance although his keel was a bit deeper, shorter in length and thinner. Apart from the keels, identical boats.
 
Graham376 said:
I agree with that but most of us aren't going to buy boats with deep draught high aspect bulb keels built for racing. On a return trip from Portugal, we sailed in company with another Moody 376 from Viana do Castelo to the top of Chenal du Four, where we parted company. We have a shallow draught (4'6") scheel keel which is very low aspect but long by more modern standards and the other boat had a 12" deeper more traditional fin keel. No noticeable difference in performance over that distance although his keel was a bit deeper, shorter in length and thinner. Apart from the keels, identical boats.
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No but 6 foot draft compared to 4'6" will make a difference to weather. Lots of modern production boats have drafts of over 6ft. They aren't sold as race boats
 
geem said:
No but 6 foot draft compared to 4'6" will make a difference to weather. Lots of modern production boats have drafts of over 6ft. They aren't sold as race boats
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They have that draft for probably 2 reasons. First and most important is to get the ballast down low usually as a bulb or torpedo. this is because they generally have lower ballast ratios +/- 30% compared with 40% or more of earlier designs. Second is the main markets now are in waters where draft is less of an issue than the UK N European and East coast US markets. A by product of newer style keels is that they are mostly more efficient foils than for example the IOR style trapezoids which were common in the late 70s to mid 90s.
 
For all the differences of keel and hull form or whatever, in pure cruising terms what appears to matter most is waterline length. Westerlys were generally designed with long waterlines, as you might see with the Longbow, so the Fulmar will generally cruise well for that reason alone. On the other hand, everyone knows that it wouldn't stand a chance against an Anderson 22.
 
johnalison said:
For all the differences of keel and hull form or whatever, in pure cruising terms what appears to matter most is waterline length. Westerlys were generally designed with long waterlines, as you might see with the Longbow, so the Fulmar will generally cruise well for that reason alone. On the other hand, everyone knows that it wouldn't stand a chance against an Anderson 22.
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There are so many variables that waterline length is only one of them. Sail area, wetted area, keel type, all impact speed. Different shapes perform differently in different conditions. You only have to look at the incredible variation in designs by walking around a marina or a boatyard.
I always think that the Fulmar looks a little boring. There is no extreme aspect in any part of its DNA. The perfect compromise?
 
geem said:
There are so many variables that waterline length is only one of them. Sail area, wetted area, keel type, all impact speed. Different shapes perform differently in different conditions. You only have to look at the incredible variation in designs by walking around a marina or a boatyard.
I always think that the Fulmar looks a little boring. There is no extreme aspect in any part of its DNA. The perfect compromise?
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One factor never mentioned in these discussions is laden weight. The average cruiser can carry a ton of excess baggage ranging from crew, anchors, chain, sails, provisions, dinghy, outboards, etc, etc.

We stripped our boat for a race, it floated an inch or more higher, tacked faster and handled much better. It was not a light weather drift. We won by a mile.

This could easily overcome any design factors
 
Skysail said:
One factor never mentioned in these discussions is laden weight. The average cruiser can carry a ton of excess baggage ranging from crew, anchors, chain, sails, provisions, dinghy, outboards, etc, etc.

We stripped our boat for a race, it floated an inch or more higher, tacked faster and handled much better. It was not a light weather drift. We won by a mile.

This could easily overcome any design factors
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Weight impacts on some designs more than others. For race boats, weight is crucial but for a long distance cruising boat, it's not essential. Weight can even be desirable. Comfort in the ocean is provided by heavier boats.
We crossed the pond last year from West to East. Antigua to Horta in the Azores. An 18t 44 ft ketch. 15 days passage time with just me and the wife onboard. Plenty of lighter and larger boats took longer than us that left at the same time.
 
Unless he has joined on Saturday and kept his eye on progress since, the OP seems to have departed, probably after post 3.

Not unusual to see a new member ask a slightly odd question and then sod off, are they robots?

.
 
Just in case the OP is still reading, or anyone else is wondering the same thing, I will add my 2p worth, based on 3 years ownership of a fin-keel Fulmar. It is owned jointly between 3 former dinghy sailors. Between us we had a GP14, a Wayfarer and a Laser 2000. The Fulmar is far more fun to sail than the GP14 because you are not getting a face full of water at every wave you encounter. The Wayfarer owner still has his dinghy, but always sails the Fulmar for preference. The Laser 2000 was a lot of fun to sail, and I don't think any cruising yacht would match that, apart perhaps from Chiara's Dragonfly. But we do find the Fulmar very satisfying to sail, as former dinghy sailors. It accelerates nicely in a gust, and feels responsive to the tiller. In perfect conditions we can sustain over 7 knots, with dry clothes and a cup of tea in hand.
 
Barton Seagoon said:
Just in case the OP is still reading, or anyone else is wondering the same thing, I will add my 2p worth, based on 3 years ownership of a fin-keel Fulmar. It is owned jointly between 3 former dinghy sailors. Between us we had a GP14, a Wayfarer and a Laser 2000. The Fulmar is far more fun to sail than the GP14 because you are not getting a face full of water at every wave you encounter. The Wayfarer owner still has his dinghy, but always sails the Fulmar for preference. The Laser 2000 was a lot of fun to sail, and I don't think any cruising yacht would match that, apart perhaps from Chiara's Dragonfly. But we do find the Fulmar very satisfying to sail, as former dinghy sailors. It accelerates nicely in a gust, and feels responsive to the tiller. In perfect conditions we can sustain over 7 knots, with dry clothes and a cup of tea in hand.
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Ah, another satisfied Fulmar owner that I helped in the buying process. To date I have assisted 9 potential Fulmar buyers with advice to become owners. I am always pleased to help and am a Westerly Owners Association BoatLine member for the Fulmar.
 
doug748 said:
Unless he has joined on Saturday and kept his eye on progress since, the OP seems to have departed, probably after post 3.

Not unusual to see a new member ask a slightly odd question and then sod off, are they robots?

.
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He probably bought a twister & is now too embarrased to admit it :) :)
But in case he does come back, good looking one for £14.5k on fb here
Log into Facebook
 
Concerto said:
The only time I have sailed my fin keeled Fulmar alongside a twin keel version, I just walked away. The other owner kept turning his engine on to catch up. Later he then said he had a dirty bottom and wanted a rematch. I know the result would have been the same. I also have a folding propeller and I think he has a fixed one, so he is at a double disadvantage. Next season I will be sailing with another twin keel Fulmar and expect the results to be the same. From memory the old Portsmouth Yardstick showed a 3 difference in rating for just a twin keel version.
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I think you write the twin keel Fulmar off too readily. It will always be slightly slower than the fin, at least in lighter airs. But its the best twin keel boat I ever sailed. Off the race course and on long cruising passages I suspect there is little difference between twin and fin Fulmars, all other factors being equal. And the reason to buy one is strong for those on drying moorings or cruising shallow waters.

That said, I chose a long keel for stability and comfort...........and a twin keel Fulmar would walk away from me!
 
Well the Fulmar seems to be the clear winner of the two boats mentioned. And nope, I've not bought a Twister just yet! although currently the Twister is speaking to me more than the Westerly despite the resounding verdict here!

But as someone correctly said: Isolating the search to two boats isn't particularly useful. Especially with stuff of this age.

So with further thought, despite the many accounts of the Fulmar being a worthy all rounder. I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

I know these boats will never point as high or sail as well in light airs as a Fulmar, but when I really think about my long-term goals, seeing the world matters more to me than having the faster, more exciting boat. And honestly, these heavy old long-keelers just feel more 'correct' for achieving that in a straightforward way.

I'm not sure where this thread can go from here. Other than a debate between the traditionalists & those enjoying the obvious virtues of the newer designs. I just wanted to update on where I'm at with my decision.
Thx for your posts!
 
phenderson said:
Well the Fulmar seems to be the clear winner of the two boats mentioned. And nope, I've not bought a Twister just yet! although currently the Twister is speaking to me more than the Westerly despite the resounding verdict here!

But as someone correctly said: Isolating the search to two boats isn't particularly useful. Especially with stuff of this age.

So with further thought, despite the many accounts of the Fulmar being a worthy all rounder. I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

I know these boats will never point as high or sail as well in light airs as a Fulmar, but when I really think about my long-term goals, seeing the world matters more to me than having the faster, more exciting boat. And honestly, these heavy old long-keelers just feel more 'correct' for achieving that in a straightforward way.

I'm not sure where this thread can go from here. Other than a debate between the traditionalists & those enjoying the obvious virtues of the newer designs. I just wanted to update on where I'm at with my decision.
Thx for your posts!
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You should buy what you want not what others think you should want. Here is a suggestion outside the box, as they say:

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/marieholm-33-for-sale/716398

Looks right up your street, provided you are happy with a linear galley. Bit of a one off though, no good looking for another one next year.

.
 
phenderson said:
So with further thought, despite the many accounts of the Fulmar being a worthy all rounder. I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

When I really think about my long-term goals, seeing the world matters more to me than having the faster, more exciting boat. And honestly, these heavy old long-keelers just feel more 'correct' for achieving that in a straightforward way.
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In 1969 my parents launched a Northney 34, a development of the Twister and Rustler 31. This was one of Kim Holman's later designs before Don Pye joined him in the business. Being a Fulmar owner, I can comment that it is certainly a traditional long keeled boat. Traditional internal layout with more space than a Twister, but seems very small compared to a Fulmar. In 2022 whilst in Scotland a Northney 34 berthed a few spaces from me.

I should point out that seeing the world is worth doing in comfort. Living aboard for long periods can cause cabin fever, so more internal space is a bonus as you can carry more supplies and spares.

The biggest problem you will have seeing the world is fresh water. Being used to having a fresh water hose to fill up the tank is almost impossible in most places. You buy bottled water for drinking and your boat water tank will carry water for washing. A water maker may help but only for limited quantities.

Are you planning to sail single handed, with a partner or as a family. This will certainly affect your choice of boat.
 
doug748 said:
You should buy what you want not what others think you should want. Here is a suggestion outside the box, as they say:

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/marieholm-33-for-sale/716398

Looks right up your street, provided you are happy with a linear galley. Bit of a one off though, no good looking for another one next year.
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Pye_End said:
Or this one, next to it:

https://www.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/victoria-30-for-sale/775698

Both absolute bargains.
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The Marieholm 33 doesn't look like a bargain to me at £19,995. I'm sure it would clean up okay, but most of the systems look ancient. The ad states the engine has run less than 100 hours since it was fitted new between 2001 and 2006, hinting the boat may have been sitting for years. No info on age of sails and standing rigging, but what little we can see of the headsail and furler doesn't look great. £8k and be prepared to spend heavily would be more like it.
 
Gixer said:
This Fulmar has just been reduced in price, I've seen it in the flesh, looks like a good condition boat.
Westerly Fulmar For Sale, 9.75m, 1989
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You must be looking at different photos to me ;).
I've seen this one in the flesh which is in far better nick. Buy a "cheap" Fulmar and you'll spend more than the same again sorting it. I've done it, and mine is now nicer than any of the examples currently for sale. But at what cost! :D
 
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