Fulmar & Twister Owners: Opinions please!

[Concerto]

This Fulmar has just been reduced in price, I've seen it in the flesh, looks like a good condition boat.
Westerly Fulmar For Sale, 9.75m, 1989

Sorry this is not in good condition. I can see crazing in the gel coat on the coach roof sides, flaking deck paint, filthy running rigging, water damaged interior wood work, faded berth cushions, rusty original engine, etc, etc, etc.

 

[toothless]

If I was looking for something like a twister but bigger, I would just bite the bullet and admit that what I really wanted was a contessa 32. It would do everything you want and if prices stay as they are might well be available at the top of your budget. Huge cult following. I would LOVE one, I have the CO26 which I love to bits and couldn't really justify letting go so it'll have to stay a dream for me for now.

The fulmar is objectively a good boat, but not really my cup of tea. To each their own - I agree they perform well and have lots of space but something about it just doesn't speak to me.

My real advice - join a club and go sailing on a variety of boats. Don't buy someone elses dream

 

[Tranona]

Well the Fulmar seems to be the clear winner of the two boats mentioned. And nope, I've not bought a Twister just yet! although currently the Twister is speaking to me more than the Westerly despite the resounding verdict here!

But as someone correctly said: Isolating the search to two boats isn't particularly useful. Especially with stuff of this age.

So with further thought, despite the many accounts of the Fulmar being a worthy all rounder. I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

I know these boats will never point as high or sail as well in light airs as a Fulmar, but when I really think about my long-term goals, seeing the world matters more to me than having the faster, more exciting boat. And honestly, these heavy old long-keelers just feel more 'correct' for achieving that in a straightforward way.

I'm not sure where this thread can go from here. Other than a debate between the traditionalists & those enjoying the obvious virtues of the newer designs. I just wanted to update on where I'm at with my decision.
Thx for your posts!

You are right about "feel" - the supposed superiority of long keel boars is mostly in the mind and is simply not supported by the evidence in terms of capability for offshore passage making. If it was real there would still be a queue for such boats - and there is not. Their only real attraction now is that they are "cheap". Most were hideously expensive when new in the 1960-80s but demand collapsed when newer and better boats at far lower prices came on the market. Buyers quickly discovered that for example you could get a 32' boat that would outperform and have far more space and be just as "seaworthy" as the old style 28'. One or two designs did survive that major shift such as the Vancouver, Victoria, Rustler Tradewind, but in penny numbers (and a string of bankrupt builders!)

I happen to own one of the boats on your list so am well aware of its shortcomings, which in my view outweigh the supposed benefits. Owning a boat of that type is definitely a heart decision rather than head. Of course those who own such boats will tell you (as they have done on this thread and the one on Vancouvers) about how satisfactory they are - but as Mandy Rice Davis memorably said - they would, wouldn't they! The designs that pushed the long keelers off the market - the Moodys, Westerlys Sadlers and a while host of lesser known makes in the 80s were simply better and have proved themselves over and over again.

You are welcome to come and try my GH31, probably one of the best of the originals to see what it is like - and indeed buy it when I finally give up sailing. I am sure Concerto will offer the same with his Fulmar when it is fixed. I have just re-read your original post and honestly for what you want a more modern boat such as a Fulmar, Sadler 32, Moody 29 Seamaster 925 etc is a far better bet. Get a few years experience with a boat like that around the UK and close offshore, then think about what you might buy for going farther afield. I would hazard a guess that it would not be any of the boats on your current list

 

[steve yates]

Well the Fulmar seems to be the clear winner of the two boats mentioned. And nope, I've not bought a Twister just yet! although currently the Twister is speaking to me more than the Westerly despite the resounding verdict here!

But as someone correctly said: Isolating the search to two boats isn't particularly useful. Especially with stuff of this age.

So with further thought, despite the many accounts of the Fulmar being a worthy all rounder. I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

I know these boats will never point as high or sail as well in light airs as a Fulmar, but when I really think about my long-term goals, seeing the world matters more to me than having the faster, more exciting boat. And honestly, these heavy old long-keelers just feel more 'correct' for achieving that in a straightforward way.

I'm not sure where this thread can go from here. Other than a debate between the traditionalists & those enjoying the obvious virtues of the newer designs. I just wanted to update on where I'm at with my decision.
Thx for your posts!

I think thats a sound approach and as long as you find a decent one, I think you will be very pleased with any of them. Especially when you head far away and the wind and sea gets up
What is rarely mentioned in these debates is that from the 70’s many companies started designing boats to appeal to consumers, give them more room, more speed, more comfort in harbour etc, then the charter market started taking off & became big money. And this accelerated. What was sacrificed, IMO, was seaworthiness, seakindliness and strength. After all, probably 90% of these consumers never took their boats offshore, and a huge proportion of that rarely went out in anything over a force 3, so what was the point?
Almost anything can cross an ocean once, with your choices you’ll have a boat with a comfortable motion in a seaway and ones that will probably heave to really well, a quality that would be an essential requirement for me.

 

[geem]

Well the Fulmar seems to be the clear winner of the two boats mentioned. And nope, I've not bought a Twister just yet! although currently the Twister is speaking to me more than the Westerly despite the resounding verdict here!

But as someone correctly said: Isolating the search to two boats isn't particularly useful. Especially with stuff of this age.

So with further thought, despite the many accounts of the Fulmar being a worthy all rounder. I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

I know these boats will never point as high or sail as well in light airs as a Fulmar, but when I really think about my long-term goals, seeing the world matters more to me than having the faster, more exciting boat. And honestly, these heavy old long-keelers just feel more 'correct' for achieving that in a straightforward way.

I'm not sure where this thread can go from here. Other than a debate between the traditionalists & those enjoying the obvious virtues of the newer designs. I just wanted to update on where I'm at with my decision.
Thx for your posts!

Don't be put of by those sat at home in their armchair telling you what you should be buying.
We see quite a few Nicholsons being sailed long distance singlehanded. One such boat being sailed by a naval architect. I guess he knows a thing or two about boat design for long distance sailing. He isn't pottering around the bay.
Of those choosing to sail sub 30 for boats long distance, we see plenty of people choosing long keelers. Boats of this size will inevitably by overloaded. Trying to cram everything you need into a small space will always be an issue. Older designs with a high ballast ratio seem to take the overloading with less impact on waterline. As you go bigger, this becomes less relevant.
My pal who sailed his 28ft long keeler around the world also happens to be a naval architect.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

In 1969 my parents launched a Northney 34, a development of the Twister and Rustler 31. This was one of Kim Holman's later designs before Don Pye joined him in the business. Being a Fulmar owner, I can comment that it is certainly a traditional long keeled boat. Traditional internal layout with more space than a Twister, but seems very small compared to a Fulmar. In 2022 whilst in Scotland a Northney 34 berthed a few spaces from me.

I should point out that seeing the world is worth doing in comfort. Living aboard for long periods can cause cabin fever, so more internal space is a bonus as you can carry more supplies and spares.

The biggest problem you will have seeing the world is fresh water. Being used to having a fresh water hose to fill up the tank is almost impossible in most places. You buy bottled water for drinking and your boat water tank will carry water for washing. A water maker may help but only for limited quantities.

Are you planning to sail single handed, with a partner or as a family. This will certainly affect your choice of boat.

No the Northney was not a development of the Twister.
You've said this several times over the years and been corrected but don't want to learn.

As for the OPs choice. They are completely different. If you want a shower on board get a Fulmar, If you want a beautiful looking and sailing yacht with a touch of class get a Twister.

 

[john_morris_uk]

No the Northney was not a development of the Twister.
You've said this several times over the years and been corrected but don't want to learn.

As for the OPs choice. They are completely different. If you want a shower on board get a Fulmar, If you want a beautiful looking and sailing yacht with a touch of class get a Twister.

I think there’s a touch of ‘what wheels shall I choose for my new car’ when it comes to choosing a boat on its looks. Speaking for myself I don’t give a monkeys what wheels are on my car because I can’t see them when I’m driving and neither can anyone else when they’re rotating…!

Whilst it’s not quite cut and dried, and I agree that I wouldn’t want a boat that looked like a dog, you spend 99.9% sailing the boat and looking and living on it. This ‘row away factor’ can be easily overstated.

And the irony is that Twisters certainly don’t sail any better than Fulmars. A Fulmar tracks really well and looks after you without the complete PITA manoeuvring problems you get with a long keel. Twisters are great boats but for living on and crossing oceans you need space. There’s no contest as to which will be the more comfortable for every day living 100% of the time.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Don't be put of by those sat at home in their armchair telling you what you should be buying.
We see quite a few Nicholsons being sailed long distance singlehanded. One such boat being sailed by a naval architect. I guess he knows a thing or two about boat design for long distance sailing. He isn't pottering around the bay.
Of those choosing to sail sub 30 for boats long distance, we see plenty of people choosing long keelers. Boats of this size will inevitably by overloaded. Trying to cram everything you need into a small space will always be an issue. Older designs with a high ballast ratio seem to take the overloading with less impact on waterline. As you go bigger, this becomes less relevant.
My pal who sailed his 28ft long keeler around the world also happens to be a naval architect.

I suspect a key driver in some of the boats we see sailing round the world is price. Older Nicholsons are great boats but they’re also CHEAP!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I think there’s a touch of ‘what wheels shall I choose for my new car’ when it comes to choosing a boat on its looks. Speaking for myself I don’t give a monkeys what wheels are on my car because I can’t see them when I’m driving and neither can anyone else when they’re rotating…!

Whilst it’s not quite cut and dried, and I agree that I wouldn’t want a boat that looked like a dog, you spend 99.9% sailing the boat and looking and living on it. This ‘row away factor’ can be easily overstated.

And the irony is that Twisters certainly don’t sail any better than Fulmars. A Fulmar tracks really well and looks after you without the complete PITA manoeuvring problems you get with a long keel. Twisters are great boats but for living on and crossing oceans you need space. There’s no contest as to which will be the more comfortable for every day living 100% of the time.

Wheels?
It's like comparing an MG B to a Ford Cortina and saying the MG has nicer wheels! 65 MGB 79 Cortina, completely different era.
The cortina will take you down the road a little faster but you wouldn't notice one if it passed you.
To be honest I wouldn't recognise a Fulmar if I ever saw one.

 

[geem]

I suspect a key driver in some of the boats we see sailing round the world is price. Older Nicholsons are great boats but they’re also CHEAP!

That might be a factor for the OP. He hasn't said.
If it gets you out there, looks after you in the narly stuff and it's cheap, that might tick some boxes

 

[john_morris_uk]

That might be a factor for the OP. He hasn't said.
If it gets you out there, looks after you in the narly stuff and it's cheap, that might tick some boxes

Agreed 100%

 

[john_morris_uk]

Wheels?
It's like comparing an MG B to a Ford Cortina and saying the MG has nicer wheels! 65 MGB 79 Cortina, completely different era.
The cortina will take you down the road a little faster but you wouldn't notice one if it passed you.
To be honest I wouldn't recognise a Fulmar if I ever saw one.

I think you’re missing the point.

Some people spend an inordinate amount of time and money choosing what wheels to put on their new car. I’m pointing out that it doesn’t make any difference when you’re sitting in the car and it doesn’t make any difference to people looking at the car from the outside when it’s driving along as you can’t see the things.

The analogy is worrying about what your boat looks like from the outside when in reality you spend all your time on the inside or sailing it. Obviously, you don’t want it to look like a complete dog, but I find it rather bizarre when people worry about whether their boat is the prettiest boat despite it being uncomfortable, impractical and a pig to manoeuvre.

 

[dunedin]

...
To be honest I wouldn't recognise a Fulmar if I ever saw one.

You have probably seen a few Fulmar transoms

 

[Supertramp]

Sweet lines count for something - think Silhouette, or Nicholson 43. As does a forest of wood on deck.

But don't most active sailors look at how a boat is configured and maintained? The comfort and appearance of the interior (plus a functional exterior) is more important.

Back to the OP's question, its really about the interior space and hull design differences - a personal choice.

 

[Captain Crisp]

Follow your heart, get a compositeTwister and bask in the glory everytime someone tells you what a beautiful boat you own!

 

[Goldie]

I'm focusing my search towards more traditional designs (Nicholson 31/ 32, Twister 28, Rustler 31, Elizabethan 29, Golden Hind 31 etc.)

May I suggest adding the Halmatic 30/Barbican 30 (same hull, subtle differences) to your list too? At 8.99m LOA it falls neatly into a lower mooring price bracket than some of the above yet offers at least as much accommodation as any of them

 

[Chris_Robb]

Get the Fulmar - spacious, fast, fun and very seaworthy. Take it anywhere - as Concerto conspires to prove by bashing around Orkney and Shetland in bad weather

I would go with the Fulmar. I would not be worried about the bolt on keel. I worked at Westerly when the first one was launced. Whilst doing the costings, I noted that the keel layup was far too lite. This was the prototype. The keel duly fell off in from of Dublin yachtclub. The next ones were over built in reaction, typically Westerly action! Accounts did rather embarrass the engineers over that one.

Westerly rudders again have a really heavy solid stainless rudder stock with good bearings...

Westerly Gelcoats were the best in the business. They will last forever without having to repaint. When I sold my 32 year oceanlord the gel coat was immaculate.

Having a wooden deck house on an older boat will be a source of maintenance and leaks. I recon that is a drawback especially when they age.

The Fulmar was a favourite with sailing schools as they were strong. I don't know much about Tisters, except they have a good reputation....

 

[Tranona]

That might be a factor for the OP. He hasn't said.
If it gets you out there, looks after you in the narly stuff and it's cheap, that might tick some boxes

He has £20k budget so most of the boats mentioned here are available within that - at least as purchase price. He is also 25, dinghy sailor. Seems odd (to me anyway) to focus on such a narrow type of boat when one has potentially a lifetime of sailing ahead. Having said that my fist serious boat was an old long keel boat - and I sailed it for over 30 years. It was only when I changed tack and bought my first Bavaria that I realised what I had missed by missing out the boats from the 1980s.

 

[geem]

He has £20k budget so most of the boats mentioned here are available within that - at least as purchase price. He is also 25, dinghy sailor. Seems odd (to me anyway) to focus on such a narrow type of boat when one has potentially a lifetime of sailing ahead. Having said that my fist serious boat was an old long keel boat - and I sailed it for over 30 years. It was only when I changed tack and bought my first Bavaria that I realised what I had missed by missing out the boats from the 1980s.

He isn't looking for a holiday boat. He is after something to take him safely long distance. He mentions ocean sailing. That probably why he is so specific and not mentioned anything with a B in it

 

[Tranona]

He isn't looking for a holiday boat. He is after something to take him safely long distance. He mentions ocean sailing. That probably why he is so specific and not mentioned anything with a B in it

Nothing to do with your "holiday boat" - plenty of Bavarias are in use as offshore cruising boats but of course some who are blind do not see them.

The point that I was making (note my reference to other boats mentioned here as alternatives) is that you don't know what you don't know and being fixated on a particular kind of boat and ignoring alternatives is maybe not a good idea.