Full keel vs fin keel for offshore?

[dansaskip]

Our choice for long distance sailing was a heavy displacement long keel with a cutaway forefoot. The reason is they don't broach, they don't turn into wind in a gust and they don't surf. What we found was it didn't matter how strong the gust was on the beam was the boat would start to stand up as the gust was still going through. We never came close to having the toe rail in the water and they also have a better sea motion.

I quite agree with this having crossed both the Atlantic and the Pacific (single handed) in a long keeler with transom hung rudder and cut away forefoot and the weather hasn't always been kind. A common misconception is that long keels are slower but this isn't necessarily the case and when the weather gets tough a long keeler boat can just keep on going with less stress on boat and crew with the better sea keeping and kinder motion that they have

 

[john_morris_uk]

I quite agree with this having crossed both the Atlantic and the Pacific (single handed) in a long keeler with transom hung rudder and cut away forefoot and the weather hasn't always been kind. A common misconception is that long keels are slower but this isn't necessarily the case and when the weather gets tough a long keeler boat can just keep on going with less stress on boat and crew with the better sea keeping and kinder motion that they have

People always justify what they choose. I started a thread on this several years ago that ran and ran.

The problem is that people who sail or have sailed long keel boats perpetuate the myth of ‘comfort’ and sea keeping by contrasting their experience with lightweight high volume fin keeled boats. Some modern lightweight fin keeled yachts are extremely uncomfortable in a seaway.

However, the real comparison should be between long keeled boats and well designed fin keelers that don’t have fat bottoms and plumb stems with cut away forefoots that slap the waves etc. The fin keeled boats are just as comfortable and are invariably faster than a long keeled design. They take the ground just as well and many have skegs to support the rudder and protect it and give directional stability. Contemporary boats would include Rustlers etc.

I’ve owned and sailed fin and long keeled boats. I see no advantage of a long keeled boat over a moderate designed fin keel boat. And although speed isn’t everything when crossing oceans, if you think your long keel isn’t slower, then I suggest we have a race...

 

[Porthandbuoy]

Looking at your budget you should be looking at the best equipped and maintained boat for your money, regardless of keel configuration. For the voyage you’re contemplating a wind-vane steering system of some sort will be essential, as will newish rigging and sails. Those items alone could easily equal your $5k to $7k budget.

For what it’s worth I’d prefer a heavy displacement full-keel yacht for such a trip. Yes, it may be a bit slower than a fin-keeler, but not by much once you’ve loaded her to the gunwales with food and water.

 

[{151760}]

Looking at your budget you should be looking at the best equipped and maintained boat for your money, regardless of keel configuration. For the voyage you’re contemplating a wind-vane steering system of some sort will be essential, as will newish rigging and sails. Those items alone could easily equal your $5k to $7k budget.

For what it’s worth I’d prefer a heavy displacement full-keel yacht for such a trip. Yes, it may be a bit slower than a fin-keeler, but not by much once you’ve loaded her to the gunwales with food and water.

Your last point has more to do with displacement than keel shape. Stores for an Ocean crossing will be comprise a greater proportion of the boat's displacement in a light vessel than a heavy one, and their effect will therefore be greater. I suspect that the reported greater seakindliness of long keel boats is also more due to their displacement, and that a steel fin-keeler will have a similar motion to an old, heavy long- keeler. .

 

[Tranona]

The OP rather missed the point by his post title. This is not really about long keel vs fin keel. The only reason for his title is because he was considering 2 boats with the same name, but a MK1&2, where the newer boat was a very different design. It is clear from comparison of the two boats and owners' comments that the earlier boat, which has a long keel and attached rudder is probably a better bet. However, doubt many here would contemplate for one second going ocean cruising in either!

We need to remember he has a budget of $7k Can to buy a boat in Ontario, trail it to Vancouver and sail across the Pacific. He is limited to boats he can buy in Ontario. He has listed the boats available, none of which were designed for this type of use, although one or two might be suitable with appropriate modifications.

This scenario makes most of the contributions here irrelevant to him. Of course if he could achieve his aim it would indeed be an epic tale of the Shane Acton type, but I guess to be successful he really does not need any advice from others which he would probably ignore anyway!

 

[BrianH]

The OP rather missed the point by his post title. This is not really about long keel vs fin keel. The only reason for his title is because he was considering 2 boats with the same name, but a MK1&2, where the newer boat was a very different design. It is clear from comparison of the two boats and owners' comments that the earlier boat, which has a long keel and attached rudder is probably a better bet. However, doubt many here would contemplate for one second going ocean cruising in either!

We need to remember he has a budget of $7k Can to buy a boat in Ontario, trail it to Vancouver and sail across the Pacific. He is limited to boats he can buy in Ontario. He has listed the boats available, none of which were designed for this type of use, although one or two might be suitable with appropriate modifications.

This scenario makes most of the contributions here irrelevant to him. Of course if he could achieve his aim it would indeed be an epic tale of the Shane Acton type, but I guess to be successful he really does not need any advice from others which he would probably ignore anyway!

Actually, his intention was not to launch in Vancouver ("goal is to set off from the U.S. west coast"), which may offer a better road infrastructure from Ontario to the Pacific for his plans, than the Trans-Canada Highway (TCH).

Which is why I suggested he wait and buy on the west coast where there is more likely to be more craft suited to his requirements than the majority available designed and kitted out for great lakes sailing - yes I know they are as huge as some seas elsewhere, I've sailed them, but they are not the Pacific.

He may even have luck in finding a well-found vessel already fitted out for blue-water cruising by one of the many who never get to realise their dream - there were plenty on the Seattle quays when I was there. And, in my opinion, a dream it is, with the budget quoted and the time intended ... that would certainly lengthen significantly .. by a year or two. Then again, we all need our dreams and what better than such an endeavour? Good luck to him, I really hope he makes it.

 

[Skylark]

Then again, we all need our dreams and what better than such an endeavour? Good luck to him, I really hope he makes it.

+1

I have a friend who has crossed the Atlantic (not the Pacific per the OP) twice, both solo. The first time in an 18ft sailboat and the second time he rowed across. He wrote books about each experience. They make for interesting reads.

There certainly seems to have been some sage advice posted within this thread. Ultimately, it's for the OP to consider it and draw his own conclusion, probably factoring in his personal definition of and attitude towards risk.