flares

[newtothis]

Outcome of the govt consultation on flare disposal appears to be leave it to business to come up with a pay to use system. 11 October 2021 New chapter for safe disposal of marine flares from the pleasure boat sector

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency is to work with industry to develop local self-regulated schemes for the safe disposal of redundant pyrotechnics (flares) from the pleasure vessel sector. It follows a consultation (which concluded on 15 March) with the industry, industry regulators and boat-owners to seek ways considered acceptable to all for the effective means of disposing of flares. The MCA supported a proposal for an industry-led, self-regulated disposal service that complies with existing legislation. It was also felt this was an opportunity for small regional businesses to tailor a disposal service that meets local needs, enabling an effective geographical spread of options available to boat-owners. Now the results of the six-week consultation have been published, the Government will engage with those in the sector, who through the consultation said that they were willing to engage and support the development and delivery of such a set of schemes. These are also people who have also offered to put forward their own solutions to provide an easy to access, well publicised route for pleasure boat owners to dispose of redundant flares. As the MCA service is gradually withdrawn, the industry-led one will start to take over, ensuring a smooth transition from one to the other. Director of HM Coastguard Claire Hughes said: “We knew from the outset that most vessel owners would want to have the kind of scheme that was local to home and would not involve a lot of travelling and the consultation has confirmed that. “Marine pyrotechnics have traditionally been a vital means of raising the alarm for mariners when they have run into difficulty or have an emergency at sea. “These devices must be safely and responsibly disposed of when expired or damaged. Irresponsible disposal or abandonment of flares is illegal and such action could lead to risks to public health and safety as well as to the marine environment, equipment or property. “We look forward to engaging with the sector to develop a solution that both meets its needs and complies with the law and which provides boat-owners themselves with an easily accessible, well signposted route.” The current service was put in place as an interim measure to allow for industry to develop a long-term solution and has been provided for free to pleasure boat owners by the MCA since 2010. Redundant flares can currently be taken to 17 coastguard stations around the UK plus the RNLI station in Poole, Dorset. The contract held by the MCA with an ordnance disposal company is now due to expire which is why future arrangements need to be put in place. You can read the full published consultation results here: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/disposal-of-pleasure-vessel-marine-flares The consultation lasted six weeks and was designed to help understand how and where the Government can support industry in overcoming obstacles to providing a disposal service. It looked at what scheme or schemes exist already, or which could be developed to ensure that boat-owners have access to a trustworthy and reliable range of options allowing them to dispose of their flares safely. The consultation sought views on four options: (a) to do nothing and not renew the current MCA contract and, therefore, reach a point after December 2021 where there was no recognised route to boatowners wishing to dispose of their redundant pyrotechnics; (b) business as usual, which would involve MCA renewing its existing contract and continuing to offer its limited, voluntary service at no cost to boatowners, with management and maintenance falling to the general taxpayer (at about £250k per year); (c) a fully regulated system introducing new legislation to monitor marine pyrotechnics during their whole life cycle, and including new offences and penalties and adding administrative and financial burdens to the overall sector; (d) the Department supporting the sector to develop an industry-led, self-regulated set of schemes across the county with a focus on local solutions for local needs whilst each would operate within the existing legislative framework. This was the Government’s preferred option.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Seems fair to me. Public funds shouldn’t be used to help you with your private disposal issues. Ocean Safety gave us great service. Quick and easy drop-off to dispose of 30 flares - some of them 15 years old. Not too expensive.

 

[nortada]

Seems fair to me. Public funds shouldn’t be used to help you with your private disposal issues. Ocean Safety gave us great service. Quick and easy drop-off to dispose of 30 flares - some of them 15 years old. Not too expensive.

In reality, I suspect a large number of flares would be dumped at sea.??☹

 

[scottie]

In reality, I suspect a large number of flares would be dumped at sea.??☹

Might even be stopping the Boris bridge

 

[Daydream believer]

Nobody seems to have suggested that the pyrotechnics industry come up with flares that last a lot longer than 3 years. 10 years would be a good start & surely not beyond their capability. We know that existing ones WILL work at that time but we need to have them to be SAFE & be sure that they will not injure the user. Plus they need to be legal in places like France etc - which they would be if date stamped at birth.
My very pistol flares lasted years & I only gave it up because the new shells were no longer available. So perhaps a holder for the flare,-without being classed as a weapon- could be considered.

& I am NOT referring to those pointless electric things, but flares that can actually be seen & are known to most as a distress signal.

 

[newtothis]

I'm not heavily invested in the debate, but I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have a 'producer pays' system like there is with end of life electronics under the WEEE directive.
It would incentivise producers to make longer life products, would be recoverable through pricing and would discourage people from ditching them/using as fireworks if they can be swapped out when buying new ones.

 

[scottie]

What do we do with old flares from sold boat where you are not buy replacement

 

[dunedin]

Outcome of the govt consultation on flare disposal appears to be leave it to business to come up with a pay to use system. 11 October 2021 New chapter for safe disposal of marine flares from the pleasure boat sector

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency is to work with industry to develop local self-regulated schemes for the safe disposal of redundant pyrotechnics (flares) from the pleasure vessel sector. It follows a consultation (which concluded on 15 March) with the industry, industry regulators and boat-owners to seek ways considered acceptable to all for the effective means of disposing of flares. The MCA supported a proposal for an industry-led, self-regulated disposal service that complies with existing legislation. It was also felt this was an opportunity for small regional businesses to tailor a disposal service that meets local needs, enabling an effective geographical spread of options available to boat-owners. Now the results of the six-week consultation have been published, the Government will engage with those in the sector, who through the consultation said that they were willing to engage and support the development and delivery of such a set of schemes. These are also people who have also offered to put forward their own solutions to provide an easy to access, well publicised route for pleasure boat owners to dispose of redundant flares. As the MCA service is gradually withdrawn, the industry-led one will start to take over, ensuring a smooth transition from one to the other. Director of HM Coastguard Claire Hughes said: “We knew from the outset that most vessel owners would want to have the kind of scheme that was local to home and would not involve a lot of travelling and the consultation has confirmed that. “Marine pyrotechnics have traditionally been a vital means of raising the alarm for mariners when they have run into difficulty or have an emergency at sea. “These devices must be safely and responsibly disposed of when expired or damaged. Irresponsible disposal or abandonment of flares is illegal and such action could lead to risks to public health and safety as well as to the marine environment, equipment or property. “We look forward to engaging with the sector to develop a solution that both meets its needs and complies with the law and which provides boat-owners themselves with an easily accessible, well signposted route.” The current service was put in place as an interim measure to allow for industry to develop a long-term solution and has been provided for free to pleasure boat owners by the MCA since 2010. Redundant flares can currently be taken to 17 coastguard stations around the UK plus the RNLI station in Poole, Dorset. The contract held by the MCA with an ordnance disposal company is now due to expire which is why future arrangements need to be put in place. You can read the full published consultation results here: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/disposal-of-pleasure-vessel-marine-flares The consultation lasted six weeks and was designed to help understand how and where the Government can support industry in overcoming obstacles to providing a disposal service. It looked at what scheme or schemes exist already, or which could be developed to ensure that boat-owners have access to a trustworthy and reliable range of options allowing them to dispose of their flares safely. The consultation sought views on four options: (a) to do nothing and not renew the current MCA contract and, therefore, reach a point after December 2021 where there was no recognised route to boatowners wishing to dispose of their redundant pyrotechnics; (b) business as usual, which would involve MCA renewing its existing contract and continuing to offer its limited, voluntary service at no cost to boatowners, with management and maintenance falling to the general taxpayer (at about £250k per year); (c) a fully regulated system introducing new legislation to monitor marine pyrotechnics during their whole life cycle, and including new offences and penalties and adding administrative and financial burdens to the overall sector; (d) the Department supporting the sector to develop an industry-led, self-regulated set of schemes across the county with a focus on local solutions for local needs whilst each would operate within the existing legislative framework. This was the Government’s preferred option.

Not sure how many bothered to reply to the consultation, but the outcome was clearly a fair accompli - it was very clear from the wording of the consultation document that the MCA‘s mind was made up and the answer was dumping the problem elsewhere.
MCA cost reduction is the priority.

 

[Wing Mark]

What do we do with old flares from sold boat where you are not buy replacement

I think Ocean Safety will take them, for a couple of quid a go.
According to the .gov.uk website, the Coastguard may take them if you are in a region with no commercial option to take them.
Disposing of unwanted marine flares
Is this still valid? I may soon have some to get rid of.

 

[Scotsailor]

I took a couple of flares to the local civic amenity site a couple of years ago. Just said I found these in my shed. Which was true. They took them

 

[Graham376]

I'm not heavily invested in the debate, but I wonder if it wouldn't be better to have a 'producer pays' system like there is with end of life electronics under the WEEE directive.

That's OK in theory but in practice the customer pays as any increased costs will just increase end user price.

 

[scottie]

I think Ocean Safety will take them, for a couple of quid a go.
According to the .gov.uk website, the Coastguard may take them if you are in a region with no commercial option to take them.
Disposing of unwanted marine flares
Is this still valid? I may soon have some to get rid of.

I more than suspect that your couple of quid has been inflate some what and when you have a couple of dozen it does add up

 

[penberth3]

Not sure how many bothered to reply to the consultation, but the outcome was clearly a fair accompli - it was very clear from the wording of the consultation document that the MCA‘s mind was made up and the answer was dumping the problem elsewhere.
MCA cost reduction is the priority.

Yes, "dump the problem" with the people who should be paying for the service. It was never any business of the MCA and not something that should be done with public money. MCA was given the job of providing a temporary solution.

 

[prv]

What do we do with old flares from sold boat

Leave them on the boat when you hand it over ?

Pete

 

[scottie]

Leave them on the boat when you hand it over ?

Pete

Too late

 

[Wing Mark]

I'm wondering if there's an amusing scenario to get them confiscated without getting arrested for carrying them somewhere?

Googling 'flare amnesty' gave a lot of history and we all miseed an event in Shetland last month.

Ocean Safety's website says £2.15 inc VAT, per item, waived if you buy a like for like replacement.
Sounds fair value to me.

 

[newtothis]

That's OK in theory but in practice the customer pays as any increased costs will just increase end user price.

Naturally, but if you're going to buy them you're going to buy them. Surely better to have the "recycling" cost built in to the product than rely on the customer to pay at end of life, when there is the option to just ditch them irresponsibly.

 

[Wing Mark]

Naturally, but if you're going to buy them you're going to buy them. Surely better to have the "recycling" cost built in to the product than rely on the customer to pay at end of life, when there is the option to just ditch them irresponsibly.

If your time machine goes back far enough, we could get the disposal cost added to the flares which expired in 2004.
Manufactured in what 1999? earlier?
The problem may be that less people are buying flares, so the people buying new ones are not going to subsidise disposing of all the old ones kicking about?
I've been looking at modest used boats lately, I've seen some flares on most, but nothing close to being 'in date'.

I think I will get some flares but not very many, Between mobile phones, PLBs, DSC and LED toys, I feel the function of flares is somewhat less than it was in the 80s.
But I'm reluctant to say they have no place.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Nobody seems to have suggested that the pyrotechnics industry come up with flares that last a lot longer than 3 years. 10 years would be a good start & surely not beyond their capability. We know that existing ones WILL work at that time but we need to have them to be SAFE & be sure that they will not injure the user. Plus they need to be legal in places like France etc - which they would be if date stamped at birth.
My very pistol flares lasted years & I only gave it up because the new shells were no longer available. So perhaps a holder for the flare,-without being classed as a weapon- could be considered.

& I am NOT referring to those pointless electric things, but flares that can actually be seen & are known to most as a distress signal.

One big problem is that the earliest the industry could come up with that is 15 years from now as the testing would require at least a 50% overhead (just guessing but it would be something like that). Stable chemicals that can ignite easily on demand (but only on demand) and then burn as brightly (which means at a high temperature) as required just don't exist. I think technology will simply make flares redundant - they aren't that cheap and it doesn't take many flares to reach the cost of an electronic system (SART/DSC/PLB/ELB/etc.) and they capabilities are well beyond those of flares in all except one aspect which that they can be seen by anyone. The number of people that would now see a parachute flare, recognise it and respond to it correctly is a fraction of what it was I suspect those and, once that flare's used it's used. It doesn't locate precisely, just says that's someone in that general direction in is distress. I would have a PLB and SART or DSC handheld over flares any day, especially in the Solent area given the number of suitably equipped boats to detect them. The cost is still greater than flares but not by that much and you can set them off automatically on hitting the water, unlike a flare.

 

[Daydream believer]

One big problem is that the earliest the industry could come up with that is 15 years from now as the testing would require at least a 50% overhead (just guessing but it would be something like that). Stable chemicals that can ignite easily on demand (but only on demand) and then burn as brightly (which means at a high temperature) as required just don't exist. over flares any day, especially in the Solent area given the number of suitably equipped boats to detect them. The cost is still greater than flares but not by that much and you can set them off automatically on hitting the water, unlike a flare.

So if the technology is not there how can you explain my very pistol flares lasting years?