Fitting a below deck autopilot to my tiller-steered boat?

[KompetentKrew]

Hello,

My boat is a tiller-steered Van De Stadt Caribbean 40.

I am presently using a tiller-pilot - Raymarine ST6002 control head, SmartPilot brains below deck and a Pelagic actuator arm.

Ideally I'd like to fit a below-deck motor, so that the tiller can be flipped up vertical when the autopilot is in use, freeing up space in the cockpit.

I don't think this is possible or practicable, as the whole length of the rudder shaft is enclosed, and there is no quadrant. It would seem an unreasonable amount of hacking at fibreglass would be required and I have no idea the effects upon structural integrity. Nevertheless, I thought I'd solicit the thoughts of the forum before ruling it out.

Pics:

Rudder shaft (upper 2/3) from port lazarette:

Rudder shaft (lower 1/3) from starboard lazarette:

 

[Blueboatman]

If you fitted a reverse tiller ‘ stub ‘with long side flanges coming aft from and sharing the existing main tilller/rudder stock throughbolt , then you could mount an st6000 type motor unit aft along the transom line . Perhaps .

With careful design ie sufficient length of the side plates of the new stub tiller and perhaps a downward angled brace touching the aft face of the stock, then it ‘ should’ be possible to retain the main tillers ability to hinge to vertical when in a/p mode, whilst preventing the stub, aft tiller drooping from horizontal. I think?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

You could make an above deck crank at any angle you like from the top of the rudder stock. Reverse would probably be the optimum but there is no reason you couldn't put it either side as you're not limited by the compass being on the tiller drive. By the way this "Palagic" actuators can be had for pennies direct from the manufacturer in china and they also make lots of variations so power and throw can be chosen to suite your boat. Just google the part number on your actuator ;-)

You've done what I was planning to do this year before the bug separated me from my boat! Only difference is I'm using B&G (Navico) parts.

 

[KompetentKrew]

You could make an above deck crank at any angle you like from the top of the rudder stock. Reverse would probably be the optimum but there is no reason you couldn't put it either side as you're not limited by the compass being on the tiller drive.

Yes, this was my first thought, too.

I think it'll probably be what I eventually end up with, and it will no doubt be a big improvement on the amount of cockpit space taken up by the tiller.

Nevertheless, the actuator arm will still be taking up space on deck, perhaps preventing the transom lockers from being opened whilst it's in use, and I can't help thinking that a below-deck drive would be ideal.

I don't think a below-deck drive may be realistic, but I thought I should consider the possibility. I'm thinking about spending a lot of money on new autopilot brains, so I should rule out the possibility now (or consider spending more money and going the whole hog).

I guess a below deck drive would allow the use of rudder angle sensor for the autopilot - another consideration is that I can't see a way to install one of those with a tiller-pilot style actuator, as I have at present.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Getting an arm in below deck would certainly need some rearranging at the top of those two bulkheads, possibly boxes intruding into the adjoining spaces, but once you've started it wouldn't be too bad. Woodwork and glass could be done in a day.

 

[pandos]

. By the way this "Palagic" actuators can be had for pennies direct from the manufacturer in china and they also make lots of variations so power and throw can be chosen to suite your boat. Just google the part number on your actuator ;-.

Could you post link / some starting point for seeking out / searching for the manufacturers... As I understand it those pelagic pilots are considered to be pretty good... maybe the brains of a pypilot and the moving parts from a pelagic would be a very cheap solution (practical)

 

[wully1]

I also wanted to do this but like you Id have had to hack bits out the rudder tube so binned the idea and fitted a new Raymarine Evo tiller pilot..

 

[KompetentKrew]

Could you post link / some starting point for seeking out / searching for the manufacturers... As I understand it those pelagic pilots are considered to be pretty good... maybe the brains of a pypilot and the moving parts from a pelagic would be a very cheap solution (practical)

@Buck Turgidson's previous comment on this subject:Tiller Pilot Raymarine EV-100 vs Pelagic

Mine does indeed look very similar to the one in the photos at AliBaba, and yet it copes in 30 knots and is more robust than the Raymarine tiller actuator that came with my boat.

I'm using it with a 90's or 00's Raymarine controller, a Smart Pilot and ST6002.

The reason for posting this thread is that I'm tempted to update the autopilot brains, to Raymarine Evo or similar. The current one does not steer to wind very well, possibly because the through-the-water speed sensor is rubbish.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

first google link others may go direct to JB inc

 

[sailorman]

Lovely yacht, i went on one a good few yrs ago in the brokerage sales in the Aquadelta marina, a sailors yacht indeed, that one had wheel steering.
I would look into the "drag" caused by the ram arm, when hand steering.

 

[James_Calvert]

Regarding the rudder tube, I doubt the bearing inside it is also required to seal it. So that would also need re-engineering.

 

[wully1]

I also wanted to do this but like you Id have had to hack bits out the rudder tube so binned the idea and fitted a new Raymarine Evo tiller pilot..

Got to say I’m not impressed with the fiddly fitting of the arm to the under tiller bracket - especially when they don’t line up from the last spell under pilot, you are in a rush and the ram end twists from the vertical.

My inboard pilots have spoiled me and after some use I’m not liking the Evo/ tiller pilot set up as it currently is.

But I’m loving having a tiller again.

 

[Refueler]

Not only the hacking of stock tube etc. to fit underdeck - but how to disengage - will the ram move in / out freely ??

The idea of a reversed arm link or one to the side is a better option ... as then TP is surface mounted and can be lifted off pin easily. It also allows tiller to be pivoted up out of the way ...

 

[colhel]

A few years ago I made an attachment so the tiller pilot would go behind the the tiller allowing the tiller to fold up whilst underway. It worked well, I did a build thread on it, but can't find it now.

 

[colhel]

I found the thread My putting tiller pilot behind tiller plan takes shape but the pictures have gone but I've just found a video of it, here's a screenshot to show the idea

 

[Tranona]

That does not solve the problem of lack of clutch with a tiller pilot. The ram still has to be disconnected to use the tiller for steering.

Subject discussed at some length here
forums.ybw.com/threads/autopilots-for-tiller-steering.598614/

It is possible to have an under deck pilot on a tiller steered boat but in most cases that is because the designer has allowed for it in the original design. Retro fitting is rarely possible, although it can be done with some designs using a cable (Octopus) drive unit and there is an example in this thread. However once you see how it is done it is clear that it is not possible on most tiller steered boats.

 

[bluevelvet]

My last tiller steered yacht was 34' and had a below deck autopilot fitted. It was a Jefa direct drive DD1 and was a fantastic piece of kit, as you say it allowed the tiller to stand up thus freeing up the cockpit space.
It had a short link arm connected to the shaft which going by your pictures would make installation fairly difficult.
Just a suggestion but I think you could mount the DD1 on deck just behind your rudder and build a small cover our it and I think they are waterproof.
What really surprised me was the power of the unit as it could hold a course in any sea state whilst under sail and not be too hungry on the batteries.

 

[KeelsonGraham]

Edson do below decks bronze tiller arms made to measure. Not cheap (about $600) but it would do the trick for you - provided you can cut enough access to the rudder post.

 

[KompetentKrew]

This thread is now 3 years old, by the way, lads. I decided to stick with the tiller pilot.