First Time to France

[dulcibella]

Before Francophobia/xenophobia take over, how about a few stories from our overseas correspondents about the gentle ways of UK Customs & Excise towards foreigners? In my experience, jumped-up petty officials in uniforms are generally obnoxious whatever their nationality. Simplest to take all the documents and smile a lot.

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[Gunfleet]

Let's just put it this way, when was the last time you were rummaged by customs in Britain? And when was the last time the police patrol boat asked to see your boat paperwork? Well I reckon Frenchmen suffer it in Britain as much as we do, in other words not very much. It's a difficult one. I don't want to get stopped by British or French customs, and I certainly don't want them pawing over my paperwork. But I don't want the borders insecure either. I think they (French customs and Gendarmes Maritimes) think the checkover is fair and par for the course, and if you don't have your papers dead right that's your problem.
ps not my view but in my experience the usual French copper's view. Try shouting and yelling in French about the injustice of it. They are surprisingly receptive to loud arguement, where in the same circumstances British officials would have you whisked away by the men in white coats

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by JohnM on 23/10/2003 17:02 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[zefender]

Re: SSR

When in Cherbourg a few weeks ago I was going through all my documents in a rather self satisfied way and realised that I had everything apart from my SSR. I called the UK office and they told me not worry since it isn't proof of ownership anyway and nothing will happen if stopped., They then later gladly took my £12 for a duplicate SSR certificate!

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[YAYoHamble]

Reading this and the other posts it seems I'll be broadly OK document-wise. The VAT will be a problem as the boat is old and I have no pre-'85 receipts. I'll chance it on that score.

What about equipment? I hear that French boats have to carry all the gear, by law. I've probably got the lot but wouldn't want to face a fine because I'd overlooked some obscure but required item. Do they check UK vessels as well?

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[qsiv]

I'm not aware of any statutory kit - you have to comply with UK regs, not French. Commonsense dictates a certain level of kit, but it is up to you. The RNLI SeaCheck might be a good starter.

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[BlueSkyNick]

Re: SSR

It must depend on who answers your call because when I phoned to enquire about my SSR, I got the opposite response! ie when I asked what would happen if I arrived in France without it, I was told I could be fined quite heavily.

So they gladly took my £12 too !

<hr width=100% size=1>I started out with nothing and still have most of it left.

 

[Robin]

Short answer is no and the legal answer is no.....but if you get up their nose just a tinsy bit then it might be different. My feeling is that if the boat doesn't look a wreck and has the usual safety gear in usual places AND you haven't made them angry then they aren't interested. Over the years we have been boarded in harbour, at anchor and at sea many times and never had a problem, we always remained polite (on the outside only sometimes) and have always had all the paperwork. We carry all the paperwork including passports in a PBO nav case so it only goes on board if we go foreign and isn't left on board. We do have VAT proof but have never been asked for it, or VHF license or insurance, only the registration papers. We are Part 1 registered (no longer a nice blue book though) and not SSR, I think we attract customs sometimes because we do not therefore have an SSR number on the outside. If you are boarded, ask for a 'fiche' (receipt) to say you have been cleared, any subsequent visit on the same trip all you have to do is show the 'fiche'. I leave our 'fiches' in the file and have had 'oh I saw you last year didn't I' comments. (I wanted to say yes and at the same stupid time in the morning - 0730 in a remote anchorage - but refrained).

Remember though they are just people doing a job, they probably didn't get a cuddle last night, have just had a pay rise turned down and unlike you they are NOT on holiday! Treated with respect and without the 'Brits are superior' attitude they will not be a problem. Come to think of it that's why one of them stayed all afternoon and finished off my best scotch!


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[LadyInBed]

Re: actual example

A customs man once boarded me in Cherbourg back in the eighties, he looked at my SSR and passport, that’s all I offered him. We then cracked a couple of beers and talked about the boat, he fancied something similar.

On our recent Scuttlebutt trip I was 'buzzed' by the customs launch when approaching Cherbourg. I realised that I hadn't yet put my ensign out for an airing, so went and hung it off the back end, gave the customs men a thumbs up and a wave, they waved back and sped off to harass some other unsuspecting yachtie. Come to think of it, I could have pointed them in the direction of the Solent tribe!


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[BrendanS]

You must have missed the recent TV programme showing the new South Coast based Coastguard cutter in action, along with the rib which can be deployed from a wet dock in the stern. They were hassling plenty of boats, and it was nice to see them in action and their reasons for targetting certain boats.

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[whiskerstay]

Fair enough if you're satisfied you have all the correct documents. I really don't know if I have them - I certainly don't have any proof of VAT paid, and at present, I'm in dispute with the MCA about our Part 1 registration (rendering any current travel outside of the UK impossible anyway). My schoolboy French can get through a few things, but a customs wrangle I'm not so sure about. It rather worries me. Probably best just to stay in Blighty.

Hence the enquiry - it wasn't a rhetorical question. If they have as much trouble, then all well and good. It just doesn't seem to stop very much of the illegal trafficking, so I can only presume they're being jobsworths as well.



<hr width=100% size=1>"Stop mucking about, darling, and get the bloody mud weight over."

 

[Robin]

I don't expect 'trouble' from Customs if in France at all. I might expect a visit though occasionally, and it is occasionally. In the last 2 seasons we spent 65 days in French waters without being boarded, though the Customs boats were often seen close by. In S Brittany they often anchor off the islands at Houat, Belle Isle and Glenans as we do, but they presumably are waiting/watching for boats slipping in who might be carrying drugs. Occasionally they will drop a rib and do a run around the other anchorages and do spot checks (we have had these in the past) sometimes these may really just be training trips.

Back in good old Blighty, HM C&E are no different as far as I have seen. Many years back until we were married SWMBO, being a pond-hopper, had to clear Immigration (done by Customs officers) both outbound and inbound. We found them helpful and friendly yet there were many horror stories around of boats being 'done' by the 'rummage squads' on the big Customs warship lookalikes in the channel.

If you have problems with Part 1 you can get SSR until it is sorted. The VAT thing is unlikely to come up unless your boat looks too young to be exempt. I might be tempted to ask a friendly boatyard (how about your own?) for a backdated mooring receipt to show your boat was in the UK on the required date, that is really all that is required as proof of exemption for an older boat.

Take the right documents, the right attitude and a smile on your face and go, you might find it enjoyable, if visited by Les Douaniers that is all part of the experience that makes it a little different than a trip down the coast.

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[DeeGee]

We produced only passports, bill-of-sale, and part 1 doc but NO VAT EVIDENCE. I think that part 1 must imply VAT paid, as the French Customs were quite satisfied with that.


<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[tome]

One thing that I cannot see mentioned here is that if your boat is part 1 or SSR registered then the responsibility for VAT compliance lies with British customs and not the French, de facto.

I think this is the reason why HMCG are reluctant to issue certificates of VAT compliance.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://home.btconnect.com/Amaya/Amaya_Web1.htm>Cherbourg Data site</A>

 

[Dominic]

Part 1 is the Blue Book but about 6 years ago they changed from a blue book to a laminated A4 card.

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[bedouin]

I think that if the bill of sale shows that you bought the boat in UK then it shows that the VAT is an issue for the UK C&E not the French. Hence for travelling abroad it is "as good as" VAT evidence although it means something completely different


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[Col]

In a nut shell the French love paperwork. The more the better. I carry all my Official paperwork & passports in an A4 plastic document box and can (and have) produce it on demand. They only ever seem to leaf through the top few documents before handing the box back. IMHO if it looks "right" that seems to be enough.
If you have to search through lockers to produce crumpled bits of paper, I think they would look at you a bit closer. BTW Cherbourg is a training area for the Douanne(sp?) and they're ARMED!!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>

 

[Birdseye]

Whilst in theory there is reciproscopy (?) in the EC, there was reluctance to accept the British attitrude to documentation. The SSR is a meaningless piece of paper invented just to satisfy foreign EC government liking for docs. In theory, reciproscopy (?) also applies to evidence of competence - the UK rules dont require it, so you should not need it when sailing a British boat in the EC. However, this was not always acceptable in practise, hence the ICC.

Personally, I have only ever been asked for SSR, passports and Insurance in both France and Spain. However, I have frequently been asked for these three - the French system means that officialdom is informed as soon as a foreign boat enters a French marina. And they do compete, so you will sometimes get a visit from the Douane, the Gendamerie and the local plod, all asking for the same thing.

The RYA say that the only time the vat question comes up is when something triggers it like inability to produce the original SSR, or being rude, or ducking out of a marina without paying, or a redundancy campaign in the French customs. It would be interesting to know the full circs of the case above - its easy to find someone who has heard of someone, but I have yet to meet anyone who has themselves been checked for vat.

By the way, the info on an SSR comes from you and is not checked. I have heard of lots of people who have made sure that their SSR records a sensible "marina length" for their boat since foreign marinas sometimes ask for the SSR.

So to sum up:
1/ be polite, even obsequious, to officials and get the wife / girlfriend to deal with them if poss.
2/ offer coffee /a beer and a cheesy grin
3/ have ready the passports, ssr and insurance.
4/ make polite distracting conversation.
5/ have available any vat evidence you can get if your boat is younger than 1985. this includes the originals of the bill of sale showing that it was a UK transaction between two UK citizens and therefore technically a matter for UK customs.
6/ never forget that whatever the rules say, a bloody minded bureaucrat can make others up as he goes along

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[Gunfleet]

Good for them. I'm not on the south coast and not an assiduous tv watcher - which will no doubt amuse some readers of this post. Have you seen them Brendan? I haven't seen coastguard or customs launch on the east coast for *years* and I sail plenty of miles around here.

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[BrendanS]

Yep, have seen them, quite recently, belting out of the Needles Channel. Quite impressive looking too. Big enough to stay out for days at a time.

Most day boaters are not going to see them, they do most of their work at night, when they'd be just another blip on the radar

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