First Time to France

[YAYoHamble]

First, 'Hi' - I'm new here so a little introduction:

- have small (sailing) boat; small enough to short hand without drama and big enough to get family in for the weekend without too much objection.

- started sailing Mirrors when I was around 5 and done various watery things ever since; including RIBs in a sort of professional/work context.

- boat kept on the Hamble.

OK. Now my question. Next summer a friend and I would like to do our first run to France. Before we get to passage planning etc, we're a bit stumped by the paper work requirements and various regulations.

Can anyone explain? In particular, we've heard mention of an 'international certificate of competance' - wtf is one of those and where do you get it? My friend's done a couple of RYA courses/exam things while I work on the "haven't drowned yet" principle (ie never done a course).

Any tips.

Yet-Another-Yacht-of-Hamble.

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[Twister_Ken]

You need no personal paperwork except your passport and your radio operator's licence - no ICC, no YM, nothing.

However boat will require proof of ownership (part one or SSR), proof of VAT paid, radio licence, insurance. These docs should all be originals, not xeroxes.

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[Sergeant_Pepper]

Hello and welcome!

To go to France you require:

1. SSR registration (or Part One). I assue you have her registered with the MCA? It's very cheap to do and esssential.

2. Your ship's papers in genreal. The more complete the folder of diocumentation the less hassle yo get everywhere. So include your VHF license, the ship's VHF license, your insurance policy (even if only 3rd party), and anything else related.

3. A ensign and the means to wear.

4. A French courtesy flag and, if you want to help yourself further, a Breton courtesy flag.

5. Your passports.

That's it. the ICC seems only to apply to the French inland waterway (canals etc).

Enjoy it.

Cherbourg is a great first trip as the entrance is so thoroughly safe, in the dark in any weather. I do caution you thought that the local Capitinerie will report your arrival to customs if your boat is not on their computer, so expect a visit on your first trip there.

Regards,

Humperdinck

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[L_atitude]

Wait for it!!!

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[Fill]

Not exactly a document, but your own hose is useful if you want to top up water tanks. There are taps (and power) on the pontoons but very few hoses.

There's also horrible D rings at the end of the pontoons rather than cleats at Cherbourg and this means that the more enthusiastic who rely on their crew to slow them down with a turn round the cleat can be disappointed.

To compensate there are lots of super restaurants etc.

Enjoy

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[Talbot]

The documents that you carry MUST BE THE ORIGINALS, and must include insurance and proof of VAT. Even if you have photocopies the will probably fine you several hundred smackeroos (happened this summer to more than one yacht).

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[whiskerstay]

My boat was built in 1927, and we don't have any proof of VAT paid at all - did it even exist then?!

Is there some kind of exemption for older boats, do you know? We're hoping to do France next year.

/<

<hr width=100% size=1>"Stop mucking about, darling, and get the bloody mud weight over."

 

[BrendanS]

Yes. This question comes up time and again.

If built before 1 Jan 1985 and you can prove that it was in the EU on (or before?) the 1st Jan 1993

To prove you were in the EU, you will require an original marina or boatyard receipt. Remember that not all current EU countries were members of the EU in 1993.

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[Sybarite]

<<a Breton courtesy flag >> but not if the trip is limited to Cherbourg.

John

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[whiskerstay]

Bloody hell - I've got a bill of sale from 1953 and brokers advertisement, from a few months earlier, but as far as a marina advertisement pre 1993, nothing at all.

I think this could get nightmarish.

<hr width=100% size=1>"Stop mucking about, darling, and get the bloody mud weight over."

 

[qsiv]

For a little boat it's a long way to to Granville just to fly the flag. In between it'll engender either laughter or animosity.

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[Evadne]

The last time I went to France they were happy with my registration document + passport. But then the "blue book" has the date of transfer of ownership officially stamped on it, which is why we were all so dead against it's demise.
Presumably the next time I'll need the bill of sale? If not I'm sure someone, somewhere will be doing a good trade in backdated marina bills. (Desktop publishing being what it is I'm sure you could print your own, not that I'm suggesting anyone should, of course.)

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[vyv_cox]

Me too. There are no originals for my purchase receipts showing the VAT registered number, but the French Customs didn't even look at the copies. My registration is Part 1 but not blue book.

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[Sailfree]

I have done about 15 trips to France and never been stopped once - have I been lucky? I am concerned about original documents not photocopies as I am not aware of any charter boat that has originals on board, and when purchasing our last boat I found that Lombard Marine Finance INSISTS on keeping the originals and provides only a certified photocopy of the Invoice with a handwritten statement in english that I certify etc & etc and a signature of a representative of Lombard who I am sure will command ZERO respect from the french. Lombard insist that retaining the originals protects their financial interest otherwise boat + org docs easy to sell - I assumed this is why charter boats only have copies. If the boat is a part 1 registered & Briish Flagged why are the French so worried that our Custums & Exercise are not doing their job? Has anyone got actual experience of British Boats being fined or are these the marine equivalents of Urban Myths?Can we have some actual examples please?

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[Magic_Sailor]

See TK\'s post below but...

If you intend to use any of the inland waterways you must...MUST have a CEVNI certificate AND a copy of the CEVNI rules on board.

The certificate is a ridiculously easy to get being a 14 question, multi-choice job. More or less any sailing school can help here - I used Southern Sailing who are very helpful.

The book is available from the RYA (or probably from a sailing school.

Whilst away this year I heard of a yacht leaving Honfleur (therefore in the Seine estuary) which was stopped and boarded. He did not have the certificate and received an on the spot fine of 800 euros.

Incidentally, I repeatedly saw yachts boarded by the "douanes" in a number of marinas. We were boarded twice. Each time they were mainly interested in my SSR certificate - but di check my other paperwork as well.

If I can be of further help, don't hesitate to PM me.

By the way, bienvenue a SB.

Magic

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[wayneA]

Not Urban Myth

>"Has anyone got actual experience of British Boats being fined or are these the marine equivalents of Urban Myths?Can we have some actual examples please?"

Yes. Friends of mine were fined this year in France for not having the 'original' paperwork on board. The couple said that they were quite concerned, as the Skipper was escorted to an ATM to get the cash to pay the fine.

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[aod]

I have been to Cherbourg more times than I can remember and never been boarded. However, I do know people who have and they are certainly hotting up over there.

My own approach to this is to carry original documents consisting of SSR cert, ICC cert, Insurance cert, VHF cert and Yachtmaster cert. I have never carried any proof that VAT has been paid although I take the point that proof would be helpful.
Nor have I ever carried any flags other than racing flags although again I accept that this isn't best practise.

You can contact your local customs office and make an appointment to see an office. Present what documentation you have about the boat and all being well they will issue you with a letter or a VAT paid certificate.

Personaly I doubt that based on boat age alone they would bother you about VAT but I guess it's as well to hedge your bets.

I do however think it's helpful to make sure that all of your crew have their passports and to make a up a crew list with names addresses and passport numbers.

Funny story about a friend of mine on a very new charter boat who while trying to be friendly nodded and smiled at the little customs rib in the marina. Next thing he was boarded and they went through every single locker and even looked into the bilges. There was nothing to find so they set about the documentation and indeed he had to fax the charter company to receive documentation that the yacht was VAT paid. There wasn't any fines for anything but I guess if there is a moral it's adopt the same approach to that applied to a copper watching the traffic. Whatever you do just stare straight ahead with a dead pan face and drive on by

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[robp]

I was present when a friend was fined (St Vaast) for only having a photocopy of his registration doc. He pointed out that as everything else tied up, it was clear that he had title. They had the big book on hand and produced the article that says "original certificate". Clearly a regular occurence.

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[whiskerstay]

So, from all of this, is one to assume that this united Europe thing doesn't extend to British yachtsmen in French waters, that they are quite capable of being sods 'just 'cos they can', and that you will be treated militantly if you aren't complying?

What is the Continent's problem? What with "Wealth Tax" in Spain, it seems visitors are in constant danger of falling foul of an anti-British Gendarme or, perhaps worse, a faceless beurocracy. Do European visitors to these islands have similar difficulties, or face similar treatment?

<hr width=100% size=1>"Stop mucking about, darling, and get the bloody mud weight over."

 

[snowleopard]

evidence of VAT paid

<local customs office........will issue you with a letter or a VAT paid certificate.>

is this recent information? i have been trying to get a letter from customs to replace the pile of VAT receipts i carry from my self-build. up to now the response has always been 'oh yes, we used to do that at dover/southampton but not any more'


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