First boat, what upgrades to buy

[wvansl]

Hi!
So I recently bought a Dufour 36 classic. It is pretty basic with equipment and I would like to do a few upgrades for comfort and safety.
The boat is located in Greece and we will sail the med for the next 2 years or so.

Currently, the boat has a Raymarine 54E VHF but after a few minutes, it warns that NO GPS position can't be found. I think the GPS antenna is missing (I see an antenna holder and a broken cable there).
How do I know which GPS antenna will work with my VHF?

Further, I would like to be visible for other boats, I don't have a radar, radar reflector, or AIS. What do you guys recommend for an AIS transmitter or maybe a transceiver?
I would like to use Navionics, is it possible to connect that to an AIS transceiver?

I have ST60 instruments but they work fine (except the speed is not working).

Thanks for your advice!

 

[srm]

Just get a basic set of nav instruments working plus AIS transponder and dual channel radar target enhancer (at masthead to prevent blind sectors). Add a bimini for the Med if not already on board (skin cancer a few years down the road is not much fun).

Sail the boat for a season as she is, you will then have a much better idea of what you want to change or add to suit your needs. Trying to decide what else to add/upgrade at this stage, or following other peoples ideas, could lead to a lot of wasted and unnecessary effort and money. This has worked for me with a number of boats, after three years sailing and adding/upgrading etc. based on your own experience she should be set up just right for your use. No need to rush.

 

[wvansl]

Thanks, what do you mean by a basic set of nav instruments? Anything in particular you recommend?
We have a bimini but we don't have a sprayhood, still in doubt if that is going to be annoying or not. (we don't have the sprayhood frame either).

 

[Tranona]

Yes your radio needs a GPS signal through the NMEA input to the radio, See the handbook here
manuals.co.uk/raymarine/ray54e/manual?p=17

There are so many ways of configuring your communications and navigation gear it is almost impossible to give specific advice. Most current equipment is based around NMEA 2000 networks and a chart plotter/MFD that will take data from other instruments and sources such as AIS receivers and display them in the way you want.

You really have to think through how you are going to use the boat and what you need to operate it in a way that you are comfortable with. One approach is to forget what you have now and buy a full system from one of the 3 main suppliers. However your ST60s are probably worth keeping so another approach is to start with what you want in the way of chart plotter, AIS and autopilot that can be integrated using the instruments you already have. clearly that is easier with Raymarine equipment.

For AIS, if you want to be seen (but only by others with their receivers turned on) a transmitter is essential. However many think it of little value in relatively empty waters like the Med. Really useful in heavy traffic areas such as around major ports or in the English Channel. Radar reflector is easy and cheap, but radar receivers perhaps of less use unless you do a lot of boating in heavy traffic areas and poor weather.

No doubt others will come along with their thoughts but it is a big subject and perhaps you need to get some experience of using your boat to identify what you need plus doing a lot of reading about what is available.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks, what do you mean by a basic set of nav instruments? Anything in particular you recommend?
We have a bimini but we don't have a sprayhood, still in doubt if that is going to be annoying or not. (we don't have the sprayhood frame either).

You have the basics - speed, depth, wind (maybe?) autopilot? communications. Only other thing useful at this point is a means of knowing where you are and help you navigate from where you are to where you want to be. Presumably you have learned how to do all this manually with paper and pencil and you can switch from that to electronic for as little as £100 for a tablet and Navionics. Where you go from there depends on how valuable you think more sophisticated stuff is and the depth of your pocket. As SRM says get a year sailing and you will have a much clearer idea of where and how to spend your money. If it is any help I found my way round Greece comfortably for 10 years with what you have plus a simple black and white chart plotter - not even as good as a phone with Navionics today.

I would not have been without my bimini and sprayhood though! - or my big water tanks, fridge, big battery bank and fans down below.

 

[johnalison]

Thanks, what do you mean by a basic set of nav instruments? Anything in particular you recommend?
We have a bimini but we don't have a sprayhood, still in doubt if that is going to be annoying or not. (we don't have the sprayhood frame either).

I assumed that he meant get your current basic set working. The speed log should be fairly reliable unless the transducer is knackered. More likely it is fouled up, or even that the transducer has been temporarily replaced with the blank, especially if the boat has been in and out of the water. The ST 60 log is easy to retract and clean while in the water and should come with the blank. Mine is tied nearby to ensure that it is available.

 

[srm]

Basic set of instruments:
Compass, GPS, some way of seeing charts.

I used paper charts for many years, then a laptop with plug in GPS for a few years, before deciding a marine plotter would do. Other people now use Phone Apps. All the electronic toys are really not necessary. For many years I navigated around the UK and Norway with, compass, log and paper charts.

I know!! shock horror!! as someone commented on this forum "no true sailor would leave harbour without wind instruments" A windex or better still a burgee and telltales on the shrouds is all that is needed, the boat will tell you when to reef.

It really is up to you, if you feel that a fully integrated navionics installation is essential, then as @Tranona said, do your research and go for it.

I have found that I do not use my spray hood in warmer climes, ventilation and shade are important. Might be useful though if you insist on repeatedly thrashing to windward.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I did the same as you with a Bav 36 ... it just had speed, depth, autopilot, and a knackered plotter with an out of date radio - and at the time Navionics wasn't an option.

I bought a budget plotter and VHF/DSC radio with an inbuilt AIS receiver and built it up from there ...

Went from this ...



To this over a period of 10 years ...



The tablet in the second picture had both GPS and AIS info working on Navionics but was unable to send data to the autopilot like the SH CP300

The options today depend entirely on the depth of your pockets - but my advice is don't splash too much cash until you've sailed the boat for a while - no point in spending a small fortune on electronics to discover you need a new windlass, and engine overhaul, or new sails.

 

[ashtead]

You don’t say year of boat/kit but a few thoughts
1 the non working speed log might be due to a fouled transducer or that the unit usually made by Airmar I believe is shot so a new unit might be a few hundred gbp/euro;
2 raymarine make many sizes of plotter so you need to consider size/location (ie how much space in front of wheel do you have to fit? -is it in front of steering wheel or do you want a pod etc but you might get along to a uk chandlery like marine superstore in port Solent to try out a few makes. If of interest raymarine host day courses of their instruments but taught by an independent tutor - Just ensure the selected plotter has Bluetooth to pair with your iPad/other device; personally I like Garmin for ease of use but we have raymarine plotter,autopilot ,wind speed and water speed etc. ie st60- I would say autopilot is most useful by raymarine plus a raymarine plotter is first thing then an ais transceiver(either a raymarine or say digital yacht box.

To start with though you might just prefer an iPad /tablet with navionics to navigate with . Updates on tablets are far cheaper than on a dedicated plotter

Do you have a budget in mind though ?
Have you asked other Dufour owners what they have on a 36? It might help with size/location.

 

[Minerva]

As a general rule of second hand boat ownership; spend the absolute minimum necessary to get the boat seaworthy and safe. Sail it for a season and make a note of things to improve / could be better. Then this time next year prioritise the list and the go break out the credit card and go shopping.

Very easy to go spend all your contingency on electronics and nice curtains, sail for a week then find the engine blows up or the sails are more shot than you thought…

 

[KevinV]

As a general rule of second hand boat ownership; spend the absolute minimum necessary to get the boat seaworthy and safe. Sail it for a season and make a note of things to improve / could be better. Then this time next year prioritise the list and the go break out the credit card and go shopping.

Very easy to go spend all your contingency on electronics and nice curtains, sail for a week then find the engine blows up or the sails are more shot than you thought…

Excellent advice. I got it the wrong way round on a few things.

 

[wvansl]

Thanks for all the answers. I'm not planning on changing a lot of things right now, I will just have a tablet (and phone as backup) with navionics but as I also will do some night sailing I would like to be visible for other boats (AIS) and fix my VHF gps signal.
And then if I would buy an AIS transceiver I think it would be good also to have one that actually communicates with Navionics.

Boat is from 2000, ST60 tridata instruments and a ST6002 autopilot (which needs service or a new belt or something since it loses track after a while)

 

[srm]

ST6002 autopilot (which needs service or a new belt or something since it loses track after a while)

If it loses track after a while it may to be the belt. They can stretch, increasingly slip, then break. However, once it starts to slip the only cure is replacement. Easy enough to change, provided you open it up correctly and don't drop any of the bearings down the cockpit drain (don't ask). Its useful to carry a spare belt. Once you have checked/replaced the belt keep the manual out and go through the new set up and calibration routine. It may not have been set up properly. Then try different sensitivity settings to find which suits your boat. You will probably have to reset this every time you switch on (just a few button presses).

As a new owner I suggest you learn/pick up/observe and copy as many skills as you can to keep the boat running safely. Unless, that is, you have unlimited funds and enjoy waiting around for technicians/engineers to come and fix things for you. As the saying goes "Cruising is fixing your boat in exotic (or remote) locations".

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for all the answers. I'm not planning on changing a lot of things right now, I will just have a tablet (and phone as backup) with navionics but as I also will do some night sailing I would like to be visible for other boats (AIS) and fix my VHF gps signal.
And then if I would buy an AIS transceiver I think it would be good also to have one that actually communicates with Navionics.

Boat is from 2000, ST60 tridata instruments and a ST6002 autopilot (which needs service or a new belt or something since it loses track after a while)

Nothing much moves at night in the Med and apart from where it is compulsory as in commercial shipping very few boats have AIS and even those who do rely more on radar. It would be low on my list of priorities. The risk of collision at night is grossly overrated. A good radar reflector is as good as you can get except an active system, but even then very few people fit them because the risk is so low.

Navionics is charting software. AIS signals go to the chart plotter that is using the charts. If you are using the charts on a tablet then you need to have wi fi signal from your AIS. This is not a common way of doing it as the more conventional way is to link your AIS to your network and your plotter. The AIS wi fi to tablet are a bit DIY. One of the major problems of grafting new bits onto an existing boat is that there are always problems of getting things to work with each other. Very different from starting from scratch for example when buying a new boat. My last boat was bought new and all the systems were properly engineered and integrated into the boat's wiring. Garmin speed wind, depth, VHF, AIS chart plotter and autopilot all working seamlessly, but at a cost. Very difficult to replicate on an existing boat.

Given what you have already (assuming it all works) probably the best step forward is to buy a Raymarine Element chart plotter to go at the helm. This can use Navionics charts, but crucially will connect with all your existing instruments including the autopilot. so you will be able to display all the data from the instruments if you wish as well as control your autopilot. It has wi fi so you can use a tablet as a "slave" if you wish and if at a later date you feel the need for AIS it will read and display that as well on an overlay. This kind of setup is now becoming the norm for many people as navigation and planning can be done down below and monitoring progress and particularly pilotage carried out from the helm.

As already suggested visit a good Raymarine dealer who can demonstrate the equipment and talk you trough the options.

 

[sailoppopotamus]

I agree with the general sentiment expressed in the thread regarding not spending too much on the first season. Having said that, radar reflectors are relatively cheap and I think you should really get one as soon as possible.

You don't mention what propeller is attached to your boat. In my view, it is a shame to own a sailboat with a fixed propeller. A folding/feathering prop is not cheap, but in terms of knots/dollar it is definitely the best investment you can make to improve your boat's performance. In my experience, it has made it possible to sail in winds that I would otherwise motor in, and has generally meant that I can actually use the boat as a sailing boat in all but the very lightest conditions. Compared to any other performance upgrades, such as new sails, fancy low-stretch ropes, etc., I think that a non-fixed propeller is the best money one can spend on a sailing boat. You earn 0.5-1knt of speed, tighter tacking angles, but most importantly, you get to actually sail the boat in wind speeds between 5-8 knots, rather than resorting to the engine. For what it's worth, I don't have a chartplotter (navionics on my phone), wind instruments, or radar, but if I ever were to get a new boat, the fixed propeller would be the first thing I'd change.

 

[Refueler]

Personally ......

Jumping in on upgrades etc. when new to a boat is IMHO waste .... better to use the boat ... spend time learning what you are going to do with it ... sort out what you have on board now.

basically get the boat as it is now working properly and THEN over time work out what you really need ........ what you think you need ...... and what is just icing on the cake.

 

[Cspirit]

I agree with Tranona. Sprayhood and Bimini are priorities in Greece as are good batteries a reliable electric windlass and (ahem) excellent anchoring arrangements. I also agree that you don’t really need fancy electronic nav equipment. In general, nav is straightforward in Greece. With a reliable echosounder and chart plotter/tablet you’ll be fine.

 

[Refueler]

I am glad that my wallet is not available to some on here .....

 

[Tranona]

I am glad that my wallet is not available to some on here .....

Can't see anybody that has suggested anything is compulsory, except getting what he has working and adding a radar reflector. Otherwise it is mostly what the alternatives are and advice to get the boat running for a year.

 

[RupertW]

I agree with Tranona. Sprayhood and Bimini are priorities in Greece as are good batteries a reliable electric windlass and (ahem) excellent anchoring arrangements. I also agree that you don’t really need fancy electronic nav equipment. In general, nav is straightforward in Greece. With a reliable echosounder and chart plotter/tablet you’ll be fine.

I agree with everything except sprayhood. in warm weather sailing even at night we have never found we needed one - yes you get spray when it’s rough but you will be in shorts during the day and don’t want to be huddled under anything to enjoy the Med night and day.

Might just be our way of sailing.

For the OP, we still haven’t upgraded anything after 13 years and after 3 years of paper only charts just added Navionics to our existing IPads and thats taken us through most of the Med and behind. ive probably missed having a cockpit plotter just twice and missed AIS never as fog is very very rarely a thing and when I look at AIS on web many ships and boats dont transmit.