Fingerprints and the new EU Entry Exit system

[rotrax]

You mean like the UK started to do for visa holders in 2009?



And in the opposite direction when it's implemented in the UK (it's been delayed until 2025). It's already standard when travelling in to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and a few other places that you get fingerprinted and checked against the biometric ID. I seem to recall Australia and New Zealand even share the data collected at the border with the US.

The UK rules for arriving by boat with non-UK passport holders are already quite broken (you have to ring a phone number to put you through to another phone number and hope someone picks up).

Not so in my experience.

NEVER had fingerprints taked or checked, but eyeball scan and hi-tec passport certainly required, as well as careful checking of facial features.

 

[steveinnice]

As you will have noticed since mask wearing came about, you can pretty much recognise people by what's left exposed. Facial recognition cameras do the same. Its all in the eyes.

 

[requiem]

Seems to me the greatest inconvenience would be to 3rd country spooks; makes it a bit harder to simply whip up a fresh passport with the new identity. You'd need plenty of fresh bodies.

I do wonder how easily they handle changes. My laptop seems to think I've gained new fingerprints somewhat regularly.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Me too.

Why are you reluctant?

It is a modern labour saving device.

When we regularly crossed at Helmstedt into the old DDR our Passports had gone ahead of us and we were scrutinised with high power binoculars, filmed and photagraphed - fairly covertly most times, but not always - and then examined closely again when changing money and buying the insurance in the office suite.

Giving fingerprints once is not much of an imposition after that, is it?

Quite so quiet so ; our Fingerprints come to us for FREE , for life , so no stealing them (cue a utube video on how that can be done) its a quite foolproof system , cannot be forgotten and left behind , wont get Rubber Stamped often , a foolproof system, no need for a Strip Search etc , whats not to like , eh ?

Its about time we knew who's who and what's not etc , so the fingerprint system is easy and simple

 

[Capt Popeye]

Bit more of that Fred Drift ere again ; (sorry)

So connecting ones Finger Prints to ones Jab history , can secure whether on is OK to travel into a Country , or Not ?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The new EU entry tracking system will apply facial and fingerprint biometrics to visitors from '3rd countries' - and so this applies to UK nationals.

What The House of Lords says:-
https://committees.parliament.uk/co...-in-new-eu-travel-rules-says-lords-committee/

Some detail from a systems supplier:-
The Schengen Entry/Exit System: biometrics to facilitate smart borders

We are using technology to control more efficiently movement of people in EU. This is done in many other countries and it is about time that we adopt the same technology in the UK. Naturally, If people don't like it, they need to keep away from the Schengen Europe. Personally, I welcome it.

 

[Poignard]

Re: "the old 'nothing to hide chestnut' (see post#4)"

Last year my wife and I applied for, and were granted, French residency cards (Cartes de Séjour).

Part of the application process required us to visit a Préfecture and have our fingerprints taken.

It took a few moments and didn't hurt a bit. We never even got ink on our fingers!

I don't understand the grounds on which anyone would object to giving his/her fingerprints to bona fide government authorities, either in the UK or in any other country one might want to visit or reside in. Anymore than one would object to providing a photograph when applying for a driving licence or passport or a library membership card.

Prior to 1915 British passports did not show the bearer's photograph. When that requirement was introduced, were there howls of protest from cranks and conspiracy theorists objecting to what they saw as a loss of one of their freedoms ?

I very much doubt it although, to be fair, in those pre-internet days all a crank or conspiracy theorist could do was to write a letter to the editor of The Times.

Now we have the internet these luddite nuisances can bang on to their hearts' content, assured of an audience; and well-deserved ridicule.

 

[steveinnice]

...... to be fair, in those pre-internet days all a crank or conspiracy theorist could do was to write a letter of protest to the editor of The Times. Now we have the internet these luddite nuisances can bang on to their hearts' content, assured of an audience; and well-deserved ridicule.

and the idiot stayed in his/her village.

 

[st599]

Not so in my experience.

NEVER had fingerprints taked or checked, but eyeball scan and hi-tec passport certainly required, as well as careful checking of facial features.

These kiosks have been in use since about 2010 at US international airports. The green scanner scans your fingerprints.

Then about 3 years ago, they started testing use of your fingerprint as a boarding card.

Here's the government pamphlet for entry in to the US: https://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/usvisit/usvisit_edu_traveler_brochure_english.pdf

 

[steveinnice]

A lot of work sites use them, I can see them data sharing to pick up undocumented workers, nothing wrong with that IMHO

 

[rotrax]

The fingerprint ID is not on your passport though, is it?

All these global entry kiosks show is that the person who uses one is in the system for the future. Information for the country/state you are visiting.

Last time I went through an International Airport it was just Passport check, eyeball and facial recognition.

 

[requiem]

The fingerprint ID is not on your passport though, is it?

It can be. I believe UK and US only include data for facial recognition. The standards for biometric passports allow facial data (required), fingerprint data (optional), and iris data (optional).

 

[Beneteau381]

The US have been gathering biodegradable data on foreigners entry for years. Europe is copying it. The UK will too.

My eye prints and fingerprints have been in the American system for years.

 

[st599]

The fingerprint ID is not on your passport though, is it?

In the UK at the moment, it's stored on a residency permit. Anyone with a residency permit gets fingerprinted at the border (has done since 2009).

The recent news reports on the UK's proposed Electronic Travel Authorisation Scheme definitely mentioned fingerprinting at the border and a raft of check taken out by the carrier. How this is applied to a yacht is anyone's guess.

 

[Bilgediver]

It does include face biometrics - hence the “self service” passport control terminals.
Are finger prints any more sensitive than face biometrics?

This data has been collected at some UK airports for years. On one occasion at LHR I put on a golf cap while in transit. The system would not let me board the shuttle home. They were reluctant to specifically give me the details but when eventually they asked when had I put the golf cap on 2+2=4 . That was 4/5 years ago. Heaven knows how long they keep that data.

 

[johnalison]

Fingerprints have been associated with criminal investigation for so long that it may be hard for many of us to make the separation. For civil liberties reasons I believe that prints of those not charged are destroyed, and I can see that the reasoning behind this has been brought into the travellers' realm. However, I think the world has moved on and we have to accept that fingerprints are going to be something that we give up, along with facial images and eye scans. I don't see why fingerprints need add a delay to people at the French border. My iPad scans my finger in a second or so for security and I imagine that a more complete scan would still take less time than a facial scan or could be done at the same time. We present ourselves at borders to be recognised and should accept the process. I am still open to persuasion about facial recognition in public places though.

 

[st599]

Fingerprints have been associated with criminal investigation for so long that it may be hard for many of us to make the separation. For civil liberties reasons I believe that prints of those not charged are destroyed, and I can see that the reasoning behind this has been brought into the travellers' realm. However, I think the world has moved on and we have to accept that fingerprints are going to be something that we give up, along with facial images and eye scans. I don't see why fingerprints need add a delay to people at the French border. My iPad scans my finger in a second or so for security and I imagine that a more complete scan would still take less time than a facial scan or could be done at the same time. We present ourselves at borders to be recognised and should accept the process. I am still open to persuasion about facial recognition in public places though.

For sailors, the issue isn't the speed of the terminal in processing the scan, it's the sparsity of terminals.

 

[johnalison]

For sailors, the issue isn't the speed of the terminal in processing the scan, it's the sparsity of terminals.

Speed was one of the issues brought up in OP's first link. I don't why terminals shouldn't be portable. If my pad can do it and contactless cards can be read, then it should be possible anywhere.

 

[robertj]

I too object to handing over my data whenever possible, but unfortunately in this instance, it's unavoidable. The alternative - giving up visiting the EU - is out of the question. Presumably the UK must have been part of early discussions on the matter, and so the gov presumably don't really have much room for complaint, I wouldn't have thought?

more of this to come?

 

[robertj]

Re: "the old 'nothing to hide chestnut' (see post#4)"

Last year my wife and I applied for, and were granted, French residency cards (Cartes de Séjour).

Part of the application process required us to visit a Préfecture and have our fingerprints taken.

It took a few moments and didn't hurt a bit. We never even got ink on our fingers!

I don't understand the grounds on which anyone would object to giving his/her fingerprints to bona fide government authorities, either in the UK or in any other country one might want to visit or reside in. Anymore than one would object to providing a photograph when applying for a driving licence or passport or a library membership card.

Prior to 1915 British passports did not show the bearer's photograph. When that requirement was introduced, were there howls of protest from cranks and conspiracy theorists objecting to what they saw as a loss of one of their freedoms ?

I very much doubt it although, to be fair, in those pre-internet days all a crank or conspiracy theorist could do was to write a letter to the editor of The Times.

Now we have the internet these luddite nuisances can bang on to their hearts' content, assured of an audience; and well-deserved ridicule.

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