Filling gas bottles.

[Bosun Higgs]

I wish somebody would give a considered reason, rather than a reaction, for not recommending this.

As far as I can see, the main risk is of overfilling when I have been told that liquid gas can get through the regulator causing flare ups from the cooker ie big sheets of flame. I guess there is a second risk in that no one is inspecting the notoriously badly painted cylinders for corrosion and weakness. Many people are sloppy and casual by nature and they will not take proper care with things like weighing the cylinders, checking their condition, doing the whole process in a safe place.

Neither risk stops me from re-filling which I've been doing now for a couple of years. I always refill the bottles outside the house with the big bottle tied upside down to the garden fence. Wouldnt dream of doing it anywhere on the boat.

 

[geem]

I use a safefill gas bottle. £149 to buy but very safe to fill. 15 litres of gas costs £10 at LPG filling station. Plastic cover on gas bottle and no rust on deck. You need a large gas locker or bottles on deck

 

[Mistroma]

As far as I can see, the main risk is of overfilling when I have been told that liquid gas can get through the regulator causing flare ups from the cooker ie big sheets of flame. I guess there is a second risk in that no one is inspecting the notoriously badly painted cylinders for corrosion and weakness. Many people are sloppy and casual by nature and they will not take proper care with things like weighing the cylinders, checking their condition, doing the whole process in a safe place.

Neither risk stops me from re-filling which I've been doing now for a couple of years. I always refill the bottles outside the house with the big bottle tied upside down to the garden fence. Wouldnt dream of doing it anywhere on the boat.

Surprised that nobody did supply the information above earlier. Another risk is due to LPG having a high coefficient of expansion in its liquid. So the cylinder could literally split open if completely filled and then allowed to warm up.

I use a safefill gas bottle. £149 to buy but very safe to fill. 15 litres of gas costs £10 at LPG filling station. Plastic cover on gas bottle and no rust on deck. You need a large gas locker or bottles on deck

As you say, much larger than the camping gaz 907s we were discussing. I think that there are also problems getting these filled at many petrol stations in Spain. OK to fill an installed tank but I've heard that just pulling out a cyl. to get it filled can be a problem.

 

[vyv_cox]

As you say, much larger than the camping gaz 907s we were discussing. I think that there are also problems getting these filled at many petrol stations in Spain. OK to fill an installed tank but I've heard that just pulling out a cyl. to get it filled can be a problem.

It is illegal to refill a bottle on a filling station forecourt in most European countries, including UK. People find all sorts of ways of getting around this of course but there could be serious implications if something goes wrong. In countries where serving yourself to fuel is less common, e.g. Spain and Italy, attendants will refuse to fill a bottle. I have even been forced to point out to Italian forecourt staff that the Gaslow bottles in my motorhome are installed and not free standing.

 

[Mistroma]

I wasn't particularly interested in refilling my own cylinders, just curious about the claim that they just floated when full. It would be one way of checking they weren't overfilled.

However, it dawned on me that it might be an easy way to spot an underfilled one. I usually carry electronic luggage scales on the boat and checked cyls. before purchase. I've seen variations of about 0.5kg so quite a difference.

I thought the information might be useful if the scales packed in (in unlikely event I was standing beside a water butt ). Camping gaz isn't too expensive in Spain/Portugal but I try to minimise time looking for cyls. by buying ones with a full charge.

 

[charles_reed]

Calor Gas set up a nation wide system of filling tanks a few years ago, (a friend of mine was the driver behind it) they are now stripping these tanks out. It never took off as a fuel and was not economcally viable.
I cant see them putting them back in to fill up cooking tanks!
Stu

There are lots of country folk who are not on mains gas who have an LPG tank which is refilled, usually by a local supplier. Our neighbours behind us did just that until they moved 2 years ago.
Though we have had mains gas in our locality for 11 years, they reckoned it was cheaper than paying for connection to the main. So though Calor found it insufficiently attractive both Shell and Total are carrying on supplying bulk LPG.

Erik, a delightful Nederlander, with whom we spent several weeks up the Guadiana, had a kit, with which he used to refill his gas containers from a local road vehicle lpg pump - insted of paying €8 for 2.6kg, he was paying the same sum for about 44Kg.

All activities have risks - for boating drowning is one of the main ones and those who indulge in it with no prior knowledge probably risk doing just that - so with refilling LPG containers thare are risks, but I'd doubt they're very much greater than filling with petrol. Not so long ago the Red Army set off the most powerful non-nuclear explosion in history - that was by the use of LPG - about 18 times more powerful than Hiroshima.

Personally I'd prefer to have someone else refill my LPG bottles for me, I've done it quite frequently, but it is a bit of a fag as you're usually using a local supply source to fill your little 2.6 - 6 kg container - I use a spring scale as sold for checking air-travel luggage. The last time I did was in conjunction with an ex-Wehrmacht WO, who was delightfully politically incorrect, pointing out to the locals (as well as me) that the only reason Germany lost the 2nd World War was because they had such incompetent allies. That was in Lampedusa.

 

[nigelmercier]

A tip for Campingaz 907 users: before you return a bottle, remove the rubber O-ring in the valve. This has two advantages, it forces the refilling station to use a new ring, and you get some spares. Probably not necessary in the UK, but in some countries I have even bought gas that came with free water!

 

[VicMallows]

A tip for Campingaz 907 users: before you return a bottle, remove the rubber O-ring in the valve.

Same goes for the rubber washer in the plastic cap of Calor 4.5kg bottles. It's there so you can renew the washer on your regulator

 

[Roberto]

I wasn't particularly interested in refilling my own cylinders, just curious about the claim that they just floated when full. It would be one way of checking they weren't overfilled.


I thought the information might be useful if the scales packed in (in unlikely event I was standing beside a water butt ). Camping gaz isn't too expensive in Spain/Portugal but I try to minimise time looking for cyls. by buying ones with a full charge.

Feedback I promised to this old thread: I just put a brand new 907 Campingaz in fresh water and indeed it is almost buoyancy neutral: the bottle remains upright and the water level just touches the upper red plastic seal they have when new.

Fresh water at 15°C, to be precise

 

[Bobobolinsky]

Just a few more thoughts on this.

One of the bigest dangers of DIY gas bottle fill has to be overfill. If there's too much (liquid) gas and too little "space" then the risk of over pressure is great.

I'm not totally convinced of just weighing the amount of gas as being adequate precaution. What are youe weighing it with? bathroom scales is my guess in 90% of cases. Do you trust their accuracy? I wouldn't. If that were my only way of preventing overfill, I would want a VERY large safety margin, like fill until your measured quantity of gas is 2/3 what it should be.

Another "problem" is the liquid gas in the fill hose. You don't want to be uncoupling the fill hose when it's full of liquid. So sugestion is once transfer is complete, shut off the donor cylinder, but leave the receiving cylinder valve open. Keep it like this for some time to allow the liquid to drain down from the hose into the receiving cylinder before shutting the valve and uncoupling the hose, now only containing gas.

My last concern is the condition of the receiving cylinder. When a cylinder goes back to it's owner for refil, it's inspected and pressure tested. I can forsee a cylinder being refilled lots of times over a number of years without checks could become old, rusty and unsafe.

You should only be filling to 80% of volume anyway.

Uncoupling a small transfer hose will not cause a lot of problems even if full of gas, half a turn on the union will be enough to release the gas.

There are some misconceptions about the filling of cylinders. In the UK pressure testing has only to be carried out every 12 years and the change of PRV. There is a quick inspection at the filling plant for mechanical damage, usually any leaks on the cylinder come from the neck to valve joint or the seal in the valve., this can be checked with a simple bubble test. The bottom ring collapses a long time before the cylinder wall is weakened

 

[VicMallows]

The bottom ring collapses a long time before the cylinder wall is weakened

Like everything else supposedly 'galvanised' these days. (big story about rusting garage doors today on R4 )

 

[GHA]

slight drift but anyone back from the Caribbean with some lite cylinder grp bottles might be interested in this..

http://www.phmsa.dot.gov/portal/sit...6c010VgnVCM10000080e8a8c0RCRD&vgnextfmt=print