Ferro-cement yachts?

[Tim Good]

Can anyone give me the concise guide to ferro-cement boats? Interested in the pros and cons and those with and without hull certificates?

 

[Tranona]

There was a reference recently here to a long thread on a US forum on the subject. Do a search. There is masses of information available. The "concise" guide is that there is no clear yes or no. There are very good boats built by both professionals and amateurs but there are many more awful ones.

Very few maintain a value consistent with their build costs because they are often very individual and unlikely to appeal to a wide market, are mostly old - few have been built in recent years and are difficult to insure. The end result is that the small number of very good ones, for example the professionally built Endurance class can be bought for much less than a GRP (or even steel) equivalent.

Hull certificates enhance the value, but do not necessarily equate to a good boat because the hull is only 25% or so of the cost of the boat and the fitout may still be poor. Because of the weight penalty of the material, most designs are of the old fashioned heavy displacement type with long keels and big spread out rigs to make them go. So if this type of boat appeals then they are worth considering - but prepared for many disappointments when you view them in the concrete.

 

[Pleiades]

The nearest to a concise guide is the definitive reference work - "Ferro-Cement Boats" by Colin Brookes. Have a looksee at website - ferrocement.org.

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

 

[William_H]

As said Ferro cement boats tend to have a poor retail value. This means that you can get a second hand bargain which can do a really good job of cruising but on the other hand is not the best material for a new build.
Fort a new build your best option IMHO is to buy a known brand GRP hull and fit it out yourself. So that if you want to sell it you have a known brand to sell. However beyond that GRP boats second hand can be very cheap compared to new build and as the hull does not deteriorate much over time can be the best bet.
Talking to a friend on Sun night who sailed a Ferro cement boat around the world in 6 years.Yes he did hole it on rocks in Canada but repaired it himself over 6 weeks to complete the voyage. He now owns a manky auld 24fter for fun. olewill

 

[vyv_cox]

My son worked on a very nice concrete boat, professionally built, named 'Spinning Jenny'. He spent a winter tidying her up before being sold by the owner. Once sold the boat was sailed Transatlantic for a Caribbean season, very succcessful. On the return journey the boat sank with no warning, went down in minutes. No reason known but the speed of sinking seems to indicate hull failure.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I've never been a fan of ferro cement despite my profession. Concrete is a brittle material but very durable and vulnerable to impact failure. They are cheap to buy but difficult to insure and sell. Best avoided imo.

 

[fluffc]

I've never been a fan of ferro cement despite my profession. Concrete is a brittle material but very durable and vulnerable to impact failure. They are cheap to buy but difficult to insure and sell. Best avoided imo.

Ferro-cement boats are made with cement, not concrete.

The 'Ferro' in ferro cement is important - it overcomes the brittleness of the cement. Cement is good in compression; steel good in tension. The two work in tandem to produce a solid hull.

Ferro is very tough - certainly not 'vulnerable' to impact failure. I'd much rather be in trouble in a ferro boat than a grp one.

Buying is cheap and selling is always difficult. There are too many 'bad' examples around that de-value the 'good' ones.

Insurance can be obtained through Yachtmaster Insurance in suffolk.


As for advice in buying one? Seek out one built in the 70's / early 80's - as this is when ferrocement boatbuilding was in it's heyday - and there was plenty of experience around. Also, if it's lasted this long - then you can be sure the hull itself is sound.


Here's an interesting thought - Ferrocement is less dense than GRP...

 

[Seajet]

A friend built a 35' ferro boat, she's a lovely cruising design.

However he found that when alongside a quay a protruding bolt easily punched a hole straight through.

Ferro is not popular now with blue water sailors who can afford anything else, as if one contacts a coral head or something the wire mesh armature makes it very difficult to plug the hole.

Said chum sold her after about 25 years and now has a AWB which he finds a lot lighter to handle and faster for getting around the Solent / cross Channel.

 

[25931]

Ferro-cement boats are made with cement, not concrete.

The 'Ferro' in ferro cement is important - it overcomes the brittleness of the cement. Cement is good in compression; steel good in tension. The two work in tandem to produce a solid hull.

Ferro is very tough - certainly not 'vulnerable' to impact failure. I'd much rather be in trouble in a ferro boat than a grp one.

Buying is cheap and selling is always difficult. There are too many 'bad' examples around that de-value the 'good' ones.

Insurance can be obtained through Yachtmaster Insurance in suffolk.


As for advice in buying one? Seek out one built in the 70's / early 80's - as this is when ferrocement boatbuilding was in it's heyday - and there was plenty of experience around. Also, if it's lasted this long - then you can be sure the hull itself is sound.


Here's an interesting thought - Ferrocement is less dense than GRP...

I'm afraid that I can't agree. I inadvertently rammed a ferro boat with our Snowgoose . I admit that the Snowgoose is built like a battleship but I was surprised at the size of the hole caused by the impact.

 

[TradewindSailor]

Ferro-cement boats are made with cement, not concrete.

.......

As for advice in buying one? Seek out one built in the 70's / early 80's - as this is when ferrocement boatbuilding was in it's heyday - and there was plenty of experience around. Also, if it's lasted this long - then you can be sure the hull itself is sound.


...

This assumes that ferro-cement doesn't deteriorate .... which is precisely the problem. Any cracks in the cement, any porosity in the cement, the reinforcing steel gets wet and rusts .... and the cement get more cracks.

Whatever age the boat is, get a survey by an experienced ferro boat surveyor and ask to see their professional indemnity insurance cover to make sure their insurer covers them for ferro surveys.

 

[V1701]

This is timely, here's a few random links:

http://www.ferroboats.com/
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/pictures-my-ferro-boat-advice-sought-15838.html
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f47/cement-boats-4128.html
http://members.shaw.ca/petersfreeman/sports/sailing/sailing.htm

I've just bought a ferro hulled boat in Greece, she's a Hartley RORC 32, on the small side for ferro hull, she weighs about 8 tons. Mine was professionally built in 1978, has had a total refit that was completed in 2007 & for what I paid I couldn't come anywhere near a boat of the same standard of equipment & fitout in fibreglass. You'll have to accept that insurance will be difficult to obtain, FC virtually impossible so effectively you need to be prepared & able to self insure your own boat. On the test sail before I bought mine I didn't have a clue what to expect of the sailing ability of an 8 ton 32 footer but was pleasantly surprised, she will not win races but will I think make a good cruiser & liveaboard. The last of the links above includes the tale of a guy who sailed a Hartley RORC 32 weighing in at 20,000lbs (9 tons) around the world non-stop in a then world record time, so they can sail, even the little ones...

View attachment 31514

 

[ghostlymoron]

Ferro-cement boats are made with cement, not concrete

Concrete is a mix of cement and aggregate(inert granular material). I've no idea what mix is was used for ferro-cement boats but would be very surprised if it was 100% cement - the heat of hydration would be enormous and would cause a lot of cracking when it cooled down.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

Concrete is a mix of cement and aggregate(inert granular material). I've no idea what mix is was used for ferro-cement boats but would be very surprised if it was 100% cement - the heat of hydration would be enormous and would cause a lot of cracking when it cooled down.

Sand and cement, but when building, the technique was to cover the newly plastered hull in wet hessian sacks and keep it wet for a week. There is more steel in the armature of of a Ferro, than cement

 

[Seajet]

One thing I've sometimes wondered about is the life of the armature; it just has to rust, and salt water will get to it somehow...

 

[Poignard]

There used to be a firm building ferro-cement boats on the East Coast. I think it was Windboats Ltd. Apparently they exhibited a finished boat which had a patch of the underwater hull left bare of paint, and as a demonstration of how strong it was, anyone visiting the stand was invited to whack it with a hammer.

I must admit I never saw this myself but I have it on good authority . . . . . !

 

[ghostlymoron]

Sand and cement, but when building, the technique was to cover the newly plastered hull in wet hessian sacks and keep it wet for a week. There is more steel in the armature of of a Ferro, than cement

The hessian is to keep the water in the mix to ensure the cement fully hydrates and doesn't dry out. Same reason you cover or spray a concrete slab after pouring. It has little to do with controlling temperature. Concrete strength increases with age, it was typical at one time to specify concrete on the 28 day compressive strength and test a sample at 7 days to make sure it's heading in the right direction.

 

[penfold]

One thing I've sometimes wondered about is the life of the armature; it just has to rust, and salt water will get to it somehow...

There are two concrete hulks at Faversham; they've sat abandoned for decades and were built a century ago. They are coming apart, but it's happening very slowly.

 

[Seajet]

There used to be a firm building ferro-cement boats on the East Coast. I think it was Windboats Ltd. Apparently they exhibited a finished boat which had a patch of the underwater hull left bare of paint, and as a demonstration of how strong it was, anyone visiting the stand was invited to whack it with a hammer.

I must admit I never saw this myself but I have it on good authority . . . . . !

It's a pity NASA marine instruments don't offer that service, it would save a lot of time !

 

[KellysEye]

We know a Kiwi couple who did a circumnavigation in a Ferro boat, but as said there are a lot of poor quality boats and they have little resale value. I wouldn't buy one

 

[prv]

There are two concrete hulks at Faversham; they've sat abandoned for decades and were built a century ago. They are coming apart, but it's happening very slowly.

There's quite a difference between the old concrete lighters and the 70s/80s ferrocement, though.

Pete