Fastnet 2023

[dunedin]

Line honours to SVR at 21:38BST. No race records this year, but incredible the punishment that these massive foiling machines can take going upwind at 25+ knots in these conditions.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Line honours to SVR at 21:38BST. No race records this year, but incredible the punishment that these massive foiling machines can take going upwind at 25+ knots in these conditions.

That is a new record isn’t it?

 

[dunedin]

That is a new record isn’t it?

Possibly for the new course, as only been run once before - for the proper course it was apparently about 28 hours

 

[jlavery]

That is a new record isn’t it?

Well all old records prior to the switch to Cherbourg are null and void (or purely historic) now.

 

[st599]

Went out in a Sigma 33 to watch the start and follow the fleet for a bit. An hour was enough fun for the crew, then in to Cowes for a curry as all the broken boats started to appear.

It was rough all the way down towards Hurst.

 

[jlavery]

Really? So roughly 3000 of the world's best racing sailors (+ the race organisers?) are guilty of poor seamanship, because they didn't think the race should be posponed until they had near risk-free-conditions? And they 'expected' the RNLI to rescue them?

I wear the yellow welly, albeit not in the Solent / on the South Coast. I didn't watch the start of yesterday's race thinking "what poor seamanship", I looked on with a sense of excitement, admiration and respect for the sailors. I'd just come away from chat with one of the local RNLI crew who had been recommending best spots to watch from. I'd suggest that most RNLI volunteers love the water and understand that 'a life lived' will involve sailors going out in less-than-placid conditions; and perhaps are motivated to sign up partly because they empathise with those who do. I know that's part of what motivates me.

I prefer a world where we have folk who will race around Fastnet in a gale to a world where folk lie on the sofa, watching Eastenders and then rattle away on their keyboards to slag of those who get out and do stuff.

A huge well done to the all the RNLI volunteers and staff who helped others out this weekend. As ever, you make the rest of us proud.

I don't agree with the "poor seamanship" comparison/judgement.

I've done 3 Fastnets, innumerable offshores and a Southern Ocean race, so I'm not averse to the idea that competitors should be up to the conditions.

The key thing, I think, is the balance between postponing when teams "should be up for all that the elements throw at them", and running the race which places teams under pressure to compete outside their comfort and skill level. Also consider teams who have prepared extensively for the event, only to have it ruined because they suffered boat damage due to the short-lived harsh conditions, which could have been avoided by a 24 hour postponement.

I can think of several races run from France in recent years which have had either their starts postponed or racing curtailed to avoid competitors being exposed to boat-breaking conditions.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Surely part of the skill set is knowing how hard to push without breaking the boat? And breaking them also improves the breed. The offshore racers break them so that the rest of us don’t. I think it needs to be worse than that before it’s postponed. The boats that broke in the Solent are very much a case in point. We raced at Yarmouth in XODs last Sunday in the Taitinger regatta, 22-32 kn, only slightly less than the Fastnet Solent leg. It wasn’t exactly pleasant, but that’s racing. 20ft open dayboats with no reefing facility are a world away from even the small IRC classes.

 

[jlavery]

Surely part of the skill set is knowing how hard to push without breaking the boat? And breaking them also improves the breed. The offshore racers break them so that the rest of us don’t. I think it needs to be worse than that before it’s postponed. The boats that broke in the Solent are very much a case in point. We raced at Yarmouth in XODs last Sunday in the Taitinger regatta, 22-32 kn, only slightly less than the Fastnet Solent leg. It wasn’t exactly pleasant, but that’s racing. 20ft open dayboats with no reefing facility are a world away from even the small IRC classes.

Yes, it's a hard decision! Whatever the organisers do, they'll get criticised.

I've also been competing in events which have been called off when we thought conditions were tough but manageable.

 

[Supertramp]

Watching the video, boats with a balanced sail plan seemed to be making better progress than those with a storm jib and a big main or the others with a titchy main and a #3.

There is quite a range of sail choices being used, and I agree that some seem easier to deal with than others. Also the total amount of sail varies a lot. Many are weathering the gusts and sailing fast in the lulls, others snugged down (and going slower). My favourite is the large ketch where they are probably managing a sandwich and tea....

 

[flaming]

I don't agree with the "poor seamanship" comparison/judgement.

I've done 3 Fastnets, innumerable offshores and a Southern Ocean race, so I'm not averse to the idea that competitors should be up to the conditions.

The key thing, I think, is the balance between postponing when teams "should be up for all that the elements throw at them", and running the race which places teams under pressure to compete outside their comfort and skill level. Also consider teams who have prepared extensively for the event, only to have it ruined because they suffered boat damage due to the short-lived harsh conditions, which could have been avoided by a 24 hour postponement.

I can think of several races run from France in recent years which have had either their starts postponed or racing curtailed to avoid competitors being exposed to boat-breaking conditions.

The "why didn't they postpone for 24 hours?" question is being asked a lot.

For context it's worth considering that they would have been making that decision on Friday. At that time the models were suggesting that there was a good chance of really quite a lot of wind, 40+, in the Irish sea on Wednesday. (It's moderated a bit to 25ish since) Which is about when the smaller boats would be there if they started on Sunday. I think RORC would rather send the whole fleet into 30-40 when they are all within easy reach of ports of refuge, than set up a situation where the smallest (and therefore in theory most vulnerable) boats are between Lands end and the Rock when 40+ comes in.

The situation when they did postpone was the exact opposite. Postpone to allow the wind to get closer, and so the big breeze hit before the fleet was past lands end. Again whilst within easy reach of many ports of refuge. Which of course is exactly what happened.

 

[potentillaCO32]

It's a tricky one for the organisers. In this case though I think it was obvious from the forecasts and discussions that a start at the planned time would result in lots of retirements and the RNLI callouts. My own view is that the organisers should have postponed 24 hours.

Just seen flaming's post above mine. I still think, on balance, a 24 hour postponement would have been wisest choice. The smaller boats would have had warning to run for safe haven if the predictions for Wednesday had turned more severe.

 

[ridgy]

I think we have an RNLI member amongst us who could disagree but in my observation, RNLI crews look forward to getting called out. I reckon most of them would have been quivering with excitement on Saturday morning.

 

[flaming]

Just seen flaming's post above mine. I still think, on balance, a 24 hour postponement would have been wisest choice. The smaller boats would have had warning to run for safe haven if the predictions for Wednesday had turned more severe.

But now think of it as a race.

How would you feel as the skipper of a well prepared 30 footer, deciding whether to continue on into the Irish sea in the face of a bad forecast, knowing that if the race had started in time you'd have been well clear of the wind? Especially if the conditions were setting up to be a little boat race and you were in with a shot of beating those million pound maxis?

As of right now there are still Several hundred boats who managed the conditions, and are still racing. Including some very small boats. Friends of mine are still out there, just approaching lands end, doublehanded in a J97.... Should we say to those guys "sorry, your heavy weather skills aren't relevant any more, we're not going to start races with strong winds forecast?"

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think we have an RNLI member amongst us who could disagree but in my observation, RNLI crews look forward to getting called out. I reckon most of them would have been quivering with excitement on Saturday morning.

They love it, as long as nobody dies.

 

[Cariadco]

Really? So roughly 3000 of the world's best racing sailors (+ the race organisers?) are guilty of poor seamanship, because they didn't think the race should be posponed until they had near risk-free-conditions? And they 'expected' the RNLI to rescue them?

I wear the yellow welly, albeit not in the Solent / on the South Coast. I didn't watch the start of yesterday's race thinking "what poor seamanship", I looked on with a sense of excitement, admiration and respect for the sailors. I'd just come away from chat with one of the local RNLI crew who had been recommending best spots to watch from. I'd suggest that most RNLI volunteers love the water and understand that 'a life lived' will involve sailors going out in less-than-placid conditions; and perhaps are motivated to sign up partly because they empathise with those who do. I know that's part of what motivates me.

I prefer a world where we have folk who will race around Fastnet in a gale to a world where folk lie on the sofa, watching Eastenders and then rattle away on their keyboards to slag of those who get out and do stuff.

A huge well done to the all the RNLI volunteers and staff who helped others out this weekend. As ever, you make the rest of us proud.

Excellent response. well said.

 

[Lightwave395]

It's generally been the case that RORC will start a race whatever the weather and it's the skipper / entrants decision whether to take part or not.

Back when I raced offshore regularly it was always difficult to decide on a friday afternoon down at the boat that the forecast was too bad so the 8 or more crew that had made the effort to get there should go home and paint the kitchen or something similar.
If you've gone through all the preparation, cost and stress of getting to a Fastnet start then it's a tough call to say we're not going
Decisions became a lot simpler when I gave up fully crewed racing and took up solo and double handed,...

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Ha ha, we are just crossing the start line. On the Red Jet. Theres not enough wind to make against the tide now, not even for Ultim 32s.

 

[jlavery]

The "why didn't they postpone for 24 hours?" question is being asked a lot.

For context it's worth considering that they would have been making that decision on Friday. At that time the models were suggesting that there was a good chance of really quite a lot of wind, 40+, in the Irish sea on Wednesday. (It's moderated a bit to 25ish since) Which is about when the smaller boats would be there if they started on Sunday. I think RORC would rather send the whole fleet into 30-40 when they are all within easy reach of ports of refuge, than set up a situation where the smallest (and therefore in theory most vulnerable) boats are between Lands end and the Rock when 40+ comes in.

The situation when they did postpone was the exact opposite. Postpone to allow the wind to get closer, and so the big breeze hit before the fleet was past lands end. Again whilst within easy reach of many ports of refuge. Which of course is exactly what happened.

Yes, it's a complex situation - you make good points.

"When they did postpone"? Typo?

 

[flaming]

Yes, it's a complex situation - you make good points.

"When they did postpone"? Typo?

No, 2007, when there was a postponement. Still went into a load of breeze. But when the fleet was still in the channel. Original start time would have had easier conditions at the start but the bulk of the fleet in the Irish sea when the big breeze came through.

 

[jlavery]

No, 2007, when there was a postponement. Still went into a load of breeze. But when the fleet was still in the channel. Original start time would have had easier conditions at the start but the bulk of the fleet in the Irish sea when the big breeze came through.

Ah, thanks!