Fast tracking a year aboard - Charter?

[tcm]

Imagine this as my initial question:

I am looking to buy a new "car", can't afford a really expensive "car" just something that will suit the family for school runs and long road trips.

Do you think that people would reply with parenting advice or talk about the "car".

I came to ask about boat advice not to get marriage counselling

Tough! You don't pay for advice hereabouts so you'll get ... whatever you're given, okay? Your initial query was a bit wild and loose with lots of missing info (eg experience) so if the thread goes a bit crazy well, there's lots of better ways to bring it back on track than to lose your rag, surely?

Your car analogy is not valid - the equipment overhead for long-distance sailing isn't the comparable with the equipment overhead for driving thousands of miles in a car. And since the options to stop/bail aren't quite so plentiful (especially with limited budget) the marriage/baby counselling (again, given lack of information about how good/bad the baby is at sea) is fair enough.

First rule of your long-distance sailing trip is ... EVERYTHiING is your fault. Don't blame others for bad forecasts, bad equipment, gear failures... or even for advice you didn't want. Not anything.

Second rule of your trip is ... If you fall out with those in a great position to help you or your crew - that's a pretty poor start, isn't it? Yes, it is. As per rule 1 - it's your fault. Be nice, and there is amazing help hereabouts. Everywhere,actually.

Third rule of your trip is .. there is always someone with more experience, bigger boat, more knowledge, resources, whatever ... more of whatever you seek or feel that you've already got. Yep, even that Ben Ainslie - loads of sailing ability but er needs lots of money for his project. This make rule 2 (Be nice) even important for him, and same for everyone else too.

 

[Jimbo1982]

This is a SAILING forum , not a forum for MOTHERCARE, your original post is ill thought out and stupid, if you cant cope with being told it by seasoned sailors or professional mariners fine , if you dont like my opinion or other peoples then dont ask a question on here, feel free to send me the address it'll be fun sitting on ship and wasting a few hours redirecting all my junk mail your way ,

Im sure you'll post again as youll be wanting the last word , but me Im done wet nursing you , good luck "sailor"

Thanks for the wet nursing. I will be sure to reread your constructive advice when I am done going through all of my new found junk mail.

I will reply to remind you once more of my initial question. This was advice on buying or chartering a boat for a season where I pointed out an "initial plan" to do med and Atlantic crossing - NOT parenting advice. I was very open to changes of sailing plans and being educated but you digressed into buying a spot on others boats and then imagined the outcomes. I would not have dreamt of this personally.

As it happens there are lots of family live aboards who have given us a huge amount of advice on boats, family matters and more.

So have a shortlist of 3 boats and will go from there. Thanks for the help Capitano!

 

[tcm]

"She's in" because she has sailed her whole life. I am in because I have sailed in the UK and Australia and having lived aboard for a couple of weeks with our son he really enjoys it.

Just because someone has less experience than you in an area there is no need to be presumptuous and obnoxious.

Hum, looks like I was right about the recent charter then. Look, sorry bout saying it was "cheap" if that's what got you going. Was it in Greece? You could have been a bit more jokey yerknow? I didn't mean to be "presumptuous", although anyone responding had to "presume" quite a lot. And there's good reason for the queries and cautionary remarks here. Taking a small child is a big deal, and hence many focussed on that.

But reading your text carefully .... I'm not at all sure if others will really measure "living aboard" in the same way as you seem to do ... "for 2 weeks" you said - that's normally called "a charter" or "a sailing holiday", really. Not "living aboard" which implies lots of distance sailing (at least sometimes) and full committment to the boat rather than the rental marina and a return flight to the UK, soon.

Reading further ... if your "sailing in the UK and Australia" is (it seems) augmented so significantly by "living aboard for two weeks" in the way you wrote it ... well, that's not likely to be very much, is it? Well I mean, it does perhaps qualify your other experiences too, at least a bit, if not quite a lot?

Likewise the idea that "she's sailed her whole life". But ... she's got a 9-moth old baby so er not the last 18months, too much if at all? - cos the 2 week "live aboard" was the baby's first significant trip, yes? I'm just interpreting your text. And ... you haven't already got a boat and neither has she - and nor does she have free access to a boat as someone frequently doing charter work/racing/crewing type work would do and hence more truly have "sailed her whole life"... so she's not someone who goes and puts on oilies when "getting ready to go out" as someone who "sailed their whole life" might likely do? I mean, the original question itself shows how little access to boats and boaters she/you actually have?

Lots here with loads more experience (and loads more experience than me too) are wary of your ideas, and I do think you'd get more out of the place if you chatted rather than got huffy so quickly? Try again?

Anyways, a transat would be tough, perhaps much tougher and if it's a first time for all of you, in a cost-concious boat, it'll be potentially quite horrid 3-4 weeks rolling downwind in the Atlantic.

The ARC spot idea isn't rubbish btw - I know of several people who have gone from there to boat delivery for the return to Europe, and some who've looked after other people's boats (free boat!) still in the carib over the hurricane season sailing it south and back up again, handling it back for xmas the following year etc. Doesn't sound like your cup of tea, but it's definitely more plausible than an Atlantic circuit for £30k including the boat, imho.

Good luck anyway, of course.

 

[LionsDen]

Looks like somebody has an attitude problem on this thread - shame on you :boxing:

 

[Jimbo1982]

Hum, looks like I was right about the recent charter then. Look, sorry bout saying it was "cheap" if that's what got you going. Was it in Greece? You could have been a bit more jokey yerknow? I didn't mean to be "presumptuous", although anyone responding had to "presume" quite a lot. And there's good reason for the queries and cautionary remarks here. Taking a small child is a big deal, and hence many focussed on that.

But reading your text carefully .... I'm not at all sure if others will really measure "living aboard" in the same way as you seem to do ... "for 2 weeks" you said - that's normally called "a charter" or "a sailing holiday", really. Not "living aboard" which implies lots of distance sailing (at least sometimes) and full committment to the boat rather than the rental marina and a return flight to the UK, soon.

Reading further ... if your "sailing in the UK and Australia" is (it seems) augmented so significantly by "living aboard for two weeks" in the way you wrote it ... well, that's not likely to be very much, is it? Well I mean, it does perhaps qualify your other experiences too, at least a bit, if not quite a lot?

Likewise the idea that "she's sailed her whole life". But ... she's got a 9-moth old baby so er not the last 18months, too much if at all? - cos the 2 week "live aboard" was the baby's first significant trip, yes? I'm just interpreting your text. And ... you haven't already got a boat and neither has she - and nor does she have free access to a boat as someone frequently doing charter work/racing/crewing type work would do and hence more truly have "sailed her whole life"... so she's not someone who goes and puts on oilies when "getting ready to go out" as someone who "sailed their whole life" might likely do? I mean, the original question itself shows how little access to boats and boaters she/you actually have?

Lots here with loads more experience (and loads more experience than me too) are wary of your ideas, and I do think you'd get more out of the place if you chatted rather than got huffy so quickly? Try again?

Anyways, a transat would be tough, perhaps much tougher and if it's a first time for all of you, in a cost-concious boat, it'll be potentially quite horrid 3-4 weeks rolling downwind in the Atlantic.

The ARC spot idea isn't rubbish btw - I know of several people who have gone from there to boat delivery for the return to Europe, and some who've looked after other people's boats (free boat!) still in the carib over the hurricane season sailing it south and back up again, handling it back for xmas the following year etc. Doesn't sound like your cup of tea, but it's definitely more plausible than an Atlantic circuit for £30k including the boat, imho.

Good luck anyway, of course.

Fair call on the huffy front tcm. I was

I was for sure frustrated that here very few here really offered more productive and friendly advice bar one or two - more lecturing and some assumptions that were way off. And no, we haven't ever chartered a boat in the med.

When I say my wife sailed all her life she started in a laser at about 10 and raced until early 20's. Also done a few channel crossings etc so more oilies than sun bathing for sure. Her entire family for generations have also sailed so no fair weather sailor at all. But you are right, we have only spent a few weeks "staying" aboard in 18 months.

I was not suggesting that 2 weeks is like living aboard for an adult, but honesty for a baby it is. They fix a new routine in this time and he loved it. Much more than sat in a house at least. As adults we can chose how we deal longer than that and if it was really shit. Well we could still leave.

Thanks for the ARC call. I wasn't rubbishing it, just highlighting that I didn't bring it up.

I think in 2015 we will sail the med and then back through Biscay to the UK in late September. With a crew and maybe without the little guy depending on conditions and his tolerance to longer passages as we will have discovered by then. I have upped my budget £40,000 for the boat now and have seen a lot of potentials at this price.

It won't be a walk in the park but nor is parenting at home, on a land holiday or anywhere to be honest - but I sure know where I would prefer to be in the tough afternoons of tantrums...and that is swimming in the med in a nice bay.

 

[neil1967]

Have you considered buying a new yacht and putting her into charter to offset the costs. I chartered a Bav 36 from Yildiz yachting in Turkey that a family had bought, spent the first season on her and then chartered her out after that to recoup some of the costs. I don't think the big operators like sunsail would do it (I enquired about doing exactly this with Sunsail in Thailand, but not possible), but some of the smaller ones would - and of course even though you put her into charter it doesn't stop you subsequently using her for a few weeks a year, or even taking her out of charter completely. The smaller companies do - in my experience - really look after their yachts - they don't turn over the fleet anywhere near as quickly as the big operators and so have to maintain the boats well if they are going to stay in business - I saw the yacht that I chartered 9 years ago just last month, still in charter and still looking good. Of course your initial outlay will be much higher, but you will recoup some of the outlay subsequently. This may not meet all your criteria, but it is at least worth considering.

Neil

 

[25931]

Never mind the pessimists who have, obviously, never heard of Rosie Swale but read her books. She not only started her round the world epic in a small, wooden catamaran with a bab ybut also gave birth to another on the way.

 

[TQA]

Never mind the pessimists who have, obviously, never heard of Rosie Swale but read her books. She not only started her round the world epic in a small, wooden catamaran with a bab ybut also gave birth to another on the way.

I had not thought of her for many a year.

We also have the 'fuzzles as examples. http://www.bumfuzzle.com/adventures/

 

[tcm]

Fair call on the huffy front tcm. I was

I was for sure frustrated that here very few here really offered more productive and friendly advice bar one or two - more lecturing and some assumptions that were way off. And no, we haven't ever chartered a boat in the med.

When I say my wife sailed all her life she started in a laser at about 10 and raced until early 20's. Also done a few channel crossings etc so more oilies than sun bathing for sure. Her entire family for generations have also sailed so no fair weather sailor at all. But you are right, we have only spent a few weeks "staying" aboard in 18 months.

I was not suggesting that 2 weeks is like living aboard for an adult, but honesty for a baby it is. They fix a new routine in this time and he loved it. Much more than sat in a house at least. As adults we can chose how we deal longer than that and if it was really shit. Well we could still leave.

Thanks for the ARC call. I wasn't rubbishing it, just highlighting that I didn't bring it up.

I think in 2015 we will sail the med and then back through Biscay to the UK in late September. With a crew and maybe without the little guy depending on conditions and his tolerance to longer passages as we will have discovered by then. I have upped my budget £40,000 for the boat now and have seen a lot of potentials at this price.

It won't be a walk in the park but nor is parenting at home, on a land holiday or anywhere to be honest - but I sure know where I would prefer to be in the tough afternoons of tantrums...and that is swimming in the med in a nice bay.

Thanks for this.

I spose the weird thing about the forum stuff is that it *sounds* as though we're all in bar, but in fact not at all. So some will be nice, and some disparaging etc.

I fully agree with the idea of family life being rather fab on a boat, and pretty much any boat.

A possibly more family friendly route might be back up the french canals esp if starting north in september.

 

[Jimbo1982]

Thanks for this.

I spose the weird thing about the forum stuff is that it *sounds* as though we're all in bar, but in fact not at all. So some will be nice, and some disparaging etc.

I fully agree with the idea of family life being rather fab on a boat, and pretty much any boat.

A possibly more family friendly route might be back up the french canals esp if starting north in september.

Thanks tcm!

We have been researching the canal option - looks like a winner. That way the whole family can stay on board all the way home.

Having read a few more books of family liveaboards I think it is is great idea to keep season 1 pretty chilled. I am not up for anything too hairy, especially on a 35' until we have spent more time on open passages. We plan to do a few of these in the med as practice to see how we go.

Thank you also 25931 - I have yet to read Rosie Swale's books. Will be my next order.

Having a serious look at a Moody 35 in Turkey at the moment. Looks like it could be a cracker and around £40,000.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Never mind the pessimists who have, obviously, never heard of Rosie Swale but read her books. She not only started her round the world epic in a small, wooden catamaran with a bab ybut also gave birth to another on the way.

Rosie Swale also ended up in prison for murder with her new transvestite boyfriend. You chose an unfortunate role model eh.

 

[TQA]

Rosie Swale also ended up in prison for murder with her new transvestite boyfriend. You chose an unfortunate role model eh.

Actually I think that is not absolutely correct. Yes she got a prison sentence of 9 months but it was suspended.

I remember reading the reports of the trial at the time and there was a whole lot of very weird stuff going on. The judge must have thought so too. I mean a guilty verdict . of murder and she earns 9 months suspended.

Later on she gets an MBE.

Anyway she had an absolutely amazing life full of pretty serious adventures. Remember as well as waterborne circumnavigation she RAN around the world starting from Tenby in 2002 and finishing in 2008 hobbling on crutches the last few miles.

There are worse role models.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Actually I think that is not absolutely correct. Yes she got a prison sentence of 9 months but it was suspended.

I remember reading the reports of the trial at the time and there was a whole lot of very weird stuff going on. The judge must have thought so too. I mean a guilty verdict . of murder and she earns 9 months suspended.

Later on she gets an MBE.

Anyway she had an absolutely amazing life full of pretty serious adventures. Remember as well as waterborne circumnavigation she RAN around the world starting from Tenby in 2002 and finishing in 2008 hobbling on crutches the last few miles.

There are worse role models.

I agree with TQA's post above so I withdraw my comment. It was a long time ago and my comment was made from memory without the benefit of up to date evidence. Actually I don't know what to do about deleting my original post. If I deleted it then TQA's post is left hanging with no source. Therefore I will leave as is but note that Rosie Swale and her husband Colin were on the same timeline as I was. I was also in an old catamaran and heading the same way. I admired the pair of them tremendously.

However, I still say that the route they eventually took round Cape Horn with babies was irresponsible especially in that ridiculous catamaran design which was basically an inshore motor sailor. At the time when they announced their route they rightly got a lot of stick from fellow cruisers. They were lucky and so were the babies who had no part in the decision.

 

[BurnitBlue]

in an effort to get (slightly) back on topic may I say that reading accounts of past exploits should be taken very carefully. The cruising scene thirty years ago is totally different than today in many ways. Apart from Pirates, floating containers, overcrowding, rapacious money grubbing "welcomes" etc there is the weather which in my opinion is a tremendous difference between the two cruising periods.

I did a lot of cruising thirty years ago and believe me, weatherwise it was a totally different planet. At least in the places I have returned to recently.

I knew many circumnavigators during that period long ago and the theme was that they never experienced one gale during multiple voyages. Not so today.

For instance, Eric Hiscock remarked that in three circumnavigations he only met winds over force 6 on ONE occasion. I doubt a contemporary cruiser could last a single week in the sheltered Ionion without meeting a wind over Force 6.

Modern yachts and equipment match the increased risk plus satellite weather forecasting helps a lot.

I have fond memories of sailing so close to the Spanish coast that I could almost pick the daises. Today I wouldn't dream of sailing so close.

Just my opinion, but if I cruised with a 9 month infant I would ensure that everything was considered in advance and safety systems enhanced. I would still do it on those terms but in the end it is still a lottery in todays weather patterns..

 

[bendyone]

Here you go

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141443103684?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

If you dont like it or the lifestyle you will not have lost too much, It was on ebay before with a BIN price of £25K

 

[tcm]

in an effort to get (slightly) back on topic may I say that reading accounts of past exploits should be taken very carefully. The cruising scene thirty years ago is totally different than today in many ways. Apart from Pirates, floating containers, overcrowding, rapacious money grubbing "welcomes" etc there is the weather which in my opinion is a tremendous difference between the two cruising periods.

I did a lot of cruising thirty years ago and believe me, weatherwise it was a totally different planet. At least in the places I have returned to recently.

I knew many circumnavigators during that period long ago and the theme was that they never experienced one gale during multiple voyages. Not so today.

For instance, Eric Hiscock remarked that in three circumnavigations he only met winds over force 6 on ONE occasion. I doubt a contemporary cruiser could last a single week in the sheltered Ionion without meeting a wind over Force 6.

Modern yachts and equipment match the increased risk plus satellite weather forecasting helps a lot.

I have fond memories of sailing so close to the Spanish coast that I could almost pick the daises. Today I wouldn't dream of sailing so close.

Just my opinion, but if I cruised with a 9 month infant I would ensure that everything was considered in advance and safety systems enhanced. I would still do it on those terms but in the end it is still a lottery in todays weather patterns..

I totally disagree. Even with a "fast" circumnavigation of a year, one needn't actually experience a full gale.

 

[BurnitBlue]

I totally disagree. Even with a "fast" circumnavigation of a year, one needn't actually experience a full gale.

I never mentioned the word gale or its concept as a low pressure system. In the tropics they are rare and belong in high latitudes. I and others are addressing sustained winds higher than force 6 from tropical fronts and or squalls. A different animal entirely. A gale is avoidable and can be forecast but squalls are not (in my experience).

I honestly doubt very much that a boat (normal slow cruising mono-type) could escape experiencing winds in excess of force 6 in an ocean passage using the trade wind belt in todays unsettled weather patterns.

I only implied that weather thirty years ago was more benign so reading reports of daring do accounts of 6 foot canoes going ocean should be taken with caution.