Failed topping lift fitting

[jamie N]

If your engine's a "GM" something, you're in a good place here, as you're treated to 100's of thousands of hours experience with these, plus a couple of bits of useful advice.

 

[Daydream believer]

The backstay takes a lot more strain from the genny in a decent blow than the weight of the boom could exert. The little bit of strain from the weight of the boom on the backstay would be on the forestay really. Those two stays take the force from the wind heeling the boat, that’s a lot more force than gravity on your boom

Down wind I let my backstay slack. Upwind in a blow I pull the 32:1 tackle in hard. However, I have a 11/12 rig. But that being said any backstay should be perfectly able to take a person swinging on it when moving round the boat in a clumsy action. Are we suggesting that such an action could bring the mast down? A boom is much less.

 

[B27]

I would urge caution regarding sailing without a topping lift on a boat with in mast reefing/furling.
If the boom is not held at the right height when furling, the system may be prone to jamming.

 

[Daydream believer]

If your engine's a "GM" something, you're in a good place here, as you're treated to 100's of thousands of hours experience with these, plus a couple of bits of useful advice.

Probably right. Trouble is that sod's law says that it will always go wrong 3 miles offshore. Not when one is sitting at home typing on laptop to the forum

 

[DoubleEnder]

did She go any quicker under sail?

 

[William_H]

It does seem, that it was an external topping lift as whole lot has dropped. Yes as said the back stay will be very strong in terms of supporting the boom. As it seems you need a topping lift for the in mast furling. (is that what OP has as opposed to on boom slab reefing /furling) (just to make sure) I would suggest he get a cable clamp and reach up as high as possible up the back stay to make an attachment for a temporary topping lift. As high as possible gives the best chance of allowing the boom to swing while still supported. This allowance to swing may be important when unfurling and reefing furling the main sail. A low attachment may become a problem if boat or wind swings while furling etc.
I would suggest plan on using main sail with temporary TL. If not then as said jib should be mostly OK.
Incidentally I always disconnect TL when leaving the boat and lay the boom on the cabin top. This minimises wear on traveller. ol'will

 

[DoubleEnder]

In my experience it is very hard to either furl, or unfurl an in mast main unless the boom is at the correct angle to the mast. Without the topping lift there isn’t a practical way of controlling the angle. So, for the purposes of the 12 mile delivery trip the OP has the choice of headsail, engine, tow or row. Leave the main where it is, safely furled, until the TL issue can be resolved. Support the boom temporarily, from the back stay, on a crutch, on deck. Getting the main out will be hard and getting it back in might not be possible at all, until there is a functioning topping lift or perhaps a solid kicker.

 

[Refueler]

I would forget about the main and just put the boom in a crutch ... that way its not swinging back and forth .. its fixed

I hate that annoying sounds when booms are moving even when clipped back ! or made of to backstay.

 

[EdgarP]

did She go any quicker under sail?

She's never going to win any races, but she seemed a little faster, but that was a different day under different conditions, and most importantly, with someone on board who knew what they were doing.
I should note that the very slow motor-only pootle featured a lot of faff, trying to work out if the exhaust gunk was a sign of impending catastrophe, and so we spent a lot of that time running at low throttle.

Thanks again all for your invaluable input - there are a number of opportunities to bug-out along the way if we end up making particularly poor time.

 

[Refueler]

She's never going to win any races, but she seemed a little faster, but that was a different day under different conditions, and most importantly, with someone on board who knew what they were doing.
I should note that the very slow motor-only pootle featured a lot of faff, trying to work out if the exhaust gunk was a sign of impending catastrophe, and so we spent a lot of that time running at low throttle.

Thanks again all for your invaluable input - there are a number of opportunities to bug-out along the way if we end up making particularly poor time.

Diesel's like to be thrashed every so often ... and when you do - often you get black smoke / gunge thrown out.

Too often boat engines spend their lives in that low to mid range throttle ... that when called on to punch that tide etc. - out comes the crap from exhaust ...

My Perkins 4-107 gets a blast every so often - I then end up with Cleaner and sponge cleaning up transom from the black ... she's fine for a month or so then.
My Yanmar in the new boat - smoked a bit when opened up ... so decent cleaner and some additives in ..... gave her a good run ... now shes down to what you'd expect ...

No I cannot advise what adds / cleaner as they are only available to industry ... not retail.

 

[jac]

I would follow Refuelers suggestion of a boom crutch until you can get the TL sorted. I have had 2 boats with in mast furling and getting the angle right is crucial. Too low and it won't come out at all - expecting to be able to do it with a jury rigged TL from the backstay i think is unrealistic as you also really need to be typically on starboard tack with the boom about 20-30 degrees off dead centre and able to align as it feels with no sheet on.

The engine speed needs to be clarified though. It looks like you have done some motoring about at low revs and then decided that the boat is under powered but have not really tested her? I would suggest that before you go 12 miles to your winter berth that you motor around at about 2000 rpm - 2500rpm and see what she will actually do. As your log is foul, try and work out a fixed distance locally ( maybe between two buoys say a mile apart) and go up and down that route ( reversing course counteracts any tide) and then seeing how you do. If that engine runs ok for the couple of miles at a decent speed and you have the boat up past say 4 - 4.5 knots then you should be fine.

The other point i noticed was the OP saying about the previous owner having the boat out every winter and cleaning the bottom. That is effectively a standard winter maintenance task for all boats to enable you to repaint with anti fouling paint etc. Depending on where you are, when that was done, how good the AF was, how much the boat has been used etc I would expect the boat to be fouled by now. Many boats that launch in March / April may have a mid season scrub around July time and then still have some fouling by now so if previous owner applied some cheap AF paint as he was selling anyway and then launched early, and boat has not been used much she could be really badly fouled!

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Some boats dont have topping lifts but simply drop boom onto cockpit or cabin roof. I find them handy as quite like to semi scandalise my mainsail to reduce drive, and it all works well with my jack stays.

If you back stay cant hold boom in place it would fall down under genoa load!

 

[andsarkit]

Can you get a couple of light lines over the spreaders from the end of the boom down to a cleat on the mast? If you twist the lines in front of the mast it should keep them near the root of the spreaders and not load them unfairly. This is effectively a simple lazy jack setup which will enable you to use the main. You will need to loosen the tension when the main is unfurled to allow it to take up a natural curve and tighten the lines a little as the main is furled away.
If you have external halyards that go over the top of the mast they cannot have a complete failure. If you pull in a new good rope using the old halyard you will be able to go up the mast safely. I have always found it difficult to work from a bosuns chair and now have a ladder that runs up the mast track and provides a stable platform right at the top of the mast.

 

[Rhylsailer99]

I know little about in mast furling and their main halyards, but if you can’t repurpose that halyard, and you are intending to motor, do you have a spinnaker halyard that could be used as a makeshift topping lift?
If you are intending to sail, doesn’t the mainsail support the boom when unfurled making the topping lift unnecessary underway? I don’t have any tension on my topping lift when under sail.

I sailed 50 miles with no topping lift, The only time it might get iffy is when you need to reef or bring the sail down.

 

[EdgarP]

Hi all,

Quick update, my friend and I successfully made the journey yesterday, despite all of our best efforts to the contrary. Something is clearly not right with the boat because we managed 4.6kts with the engine going full beans, the jib out, and a 12-14kts tailwind. We were getting overtaken by the engine exhaust.

Getting hauled out in the next couple of days so the exciting and doubtless wallet-hurting voyage of discovery can start.

Thanks again for all your suggestions, I don't doubt there will be many more idiotic questions from me in the next few weeks
Ed

 

[oldbloke]

Glad you made it. Did you try stopping or disengaging the engine?. I suspect that the propeller spent most of the time thrashing the water and trying to keep up with the rest of the boat.

 

[jac]

Hi all,

Quick update, my friend and I successfully made the journey yesterday, despite all of our best efforts to the contrary. Something is clearly not right with the boat because we managed 4.6kts with the engine going full beans, the jib out, and a 12-14kts tailwind. We were getting overtaken by the engine exhaust.

Getting hauled out in the next couple of days so the exciting and doubtless wallet-hurting voyage of discovery can start.

Thanks again for all your suggestions, I don't doubt there will be many more idiotic questions from me in the next few weeks
Ed

Be good to see a picture of how badly fouled she was !

 

[scottie]

Hi all,

Quick update, my friend and I successfully made the journey yesterday, despite all of our best efforts to the contrary. Something is clearly not right with the boat because we managed 4.6kts with the engine going full beans, the jib out, and a 12-14kts tailwind. We were getting overtaken by the engine exhaust.

Getting hauled out in the next couple of days so the exciting and doubtless wallet-hurting voyage of discovery can start.

Thanks again for all your suggestions, I don't doubt there will be many more idiotic questions from me in the next few weeks
Ed

If the tail wind was in excess of the boat speed why would you except the exhaust smoke to be different?

 

[EdgarP]

Glad you made it. Did you try stopping or disengaging the engine?. I suspect that the propeller spent most of the time thrashing the water and trying to keep up with the rest of the boat.

We tried a couple of times, once with the wind off the port, and almost immediately lost steerage and drifted towards the leeward shore. Then we tried again when running dead downwind, our speed dropped to about 2.5kts and with daylight wearing on we elected to continue motorsailing.

I'm certain that the sail was incorrectly set up, I blame the skipper.

If the tail wind was in excess of the boat speed why would you except the exhaust smoke to be different?

When put that way it does seem like I said something very silly

It struck me at the time to be a sign that something was amiss, as well as providing an indication of true wind and confirming that we were indeed running dead downwind - the boat doesn't have a working log or anemometer and GPS on its own isn't enough to tell the full story. I really can't recommend using diesel exhaust as instrumentation, though.

 

[scottie]

We tried a couple of times, once with the wind off the port, and almost immediately lost steerage and drifted towards the leeward shore. Then we tried again when running dead downwind, our speed dropped to about 2.5kts and with daylight wearing on we elected to continue motorsailing.

I'm certain that the sail was incorrectly set up, I blame the skipper.


When put that way it does seem like I said something very silly

It struck me at the time to be a sign that something was amiss, as well as providing an indication of true wind and confirming that we were indeed running dead downwind - the boat doesn't have a working log or anemometer and GPS on its own isn't enough to tell the full story. I really can't recommend using diesel exhaust as instrumentation, though.

At least you had the wind with you as the beating through the east kyle makes for a long sail
i