EU travel for non-EU spouse of EU citizen - as close as from the horse's mouth you can get?

[Graham376]

The issue is not being addressed properly. Lets say I arrive ahead of my wife and she joins me 10 days later. At that point we are travelling together and I should have only used 10 schengan days. Even in the event that you are traveling together we often have to enter via different gates when the my (non-Eu passport) is scanned in and when it is scanned out 5 months later possibly in a different country' my passport is going to show as an over stayer. How will I get permission to re-enter if "computer says no" I won't be allowed to board the plane? If I am subsequently traveling alone some time later do I have to carry what exactly to prove your wife was travelling with me; if we arrived by boat an neither of us will have a boarding pass to show for the inward journey.

According to Portugal Border Control -

If a third country national is travelling with a direct family member that has a Schengen passport, they may go together through an EU control booth.

Note Control Booth, not the scanner queue, which is what we do.

As far as travelling separately, it would be a good idea for the non EU partner to obtain residency. I just present my residence card along with passport and get waived through with no stamps.

 

[ashtead]

Makes applying for an Irish passport attractive even if on basis a parent was born in Northern Ireland -my understanding is this is perfectly feasible and once granted the rules quoted above apply equally to benefit the non EU spouse.

 

[Alicatt]

According to Portugal Border Control -

If a third country national is travelling with a direct family member that has a Schengen passport, they may go together through an EU control booth.

Note Control Booth, not the scanner queue, which is what we do.

As far as travelling separately, it would be a good idea for the non EU partner to obtain residency. I just present my residence card along with passport and get waived through with no stamps.

That is what we did while I was awaiting my proper residency ID card to come through

 

[Mistroma]

Makes applying for an Irish passport attractive even if on basis a parent was born in Northern Ireland -my understanding is this is perfectly feasible and once granted the rules quoted above apply equally to benefit the non EU spouse.

That's the route I took. I can wander around the EU at will. I've explained the 90 day rule to many EU citizens and they don't know it applies to them. They usually argue that it only applies to Brits and struggle to understand that it's a different 90 day rule.

Nobody bothers if a couple are both EU citizens. Lack of border control means they are never asked how long they have been in one country.

However, a non-EU spouse paints a target on your back if staying in one country for more than 90 days. A stamped passport proves an overstay.

The workaround is residency for non-EU spouse. Of course that means EU spouse must also apply before their partner. Just moving to another country also solves the problem as it's under 90 days. No problem moving back later as it isn't a rolling window.

 

[billskip]

if on basis a parent was born in Northern Ireland -my understanding is this is perfectly feasible a

Ireland is all Ireland as far a nationality is concerned, if you were born Ireland you get an Irish passport.
My ex. wife the mother of my two children is "northern" Irish, my son is English also his son is English, both have eu Irish passports.

 

[benjenbav]

Makes applying for an Irish passport attractive even if on basis a parent was born in Northern Ireland -my understanding is this is perfectly feasible and once granted the rules quoted above apply equally to benefit the non EU spouse.

I can’t quite get my head around the idea of applying for a passport from a country that you don’t otherwise feel you belong to.

 

[billskip]

I can’t quite get my head around the idea of applying for a passport from a country that you don’t otherwise feel you belong to.

It gives them the advantage of throwing more toys out of their prams

 

[st599]

I can’t quite get my head around the idea of applying for a passport from a country that you don’t otherwise feel you belong to.

Why? It's a transactional document, no one actually cares about where they were born any more.

 

[SimonX]

Makes applying for an Irish passport attractive even if on basis a parent was born in Northern Ireland -my understanding is this is perfectly feasible and once granted the rules quoted above apply equally to benefit the non EU spouse.

I was born in Northern Ireland and have an Irish passport but you are correct that you can apply if you have a parent or grandparent who was an Irish citizen. The Republic regard anybody born on the island as an Irish citizen. There used to be a story you could get one if you had an Irish Setter but I think that was actually for playing for the Irish football team
My wife has a Dutch passport although she was born in Norwich, her mum was born in a Dutch colony. She is also eligible for a Belgian one via her father but has never seen any need for it.

 

[SimonX]

Why? It's a transactional document, no one actually cares about where they were born any more.

Tell that to the people that paint roundabouts…

 

[benjenbav]

Why? It's a transactional document, no one actually cares about where they were born any more.

Some folks do; some don’t. I don’t consider my passport a transactional document.

 

[newtothis]

Some folks do; some don’t. I don’t consider my passport a transactional document.

I have two passports, and potential access to at least two others. Not sure how I can consider any of them anything other than transactional.

 

[jlavery]

Having an EU passport has other advantages.

My Irish passport allowed us to walk past probably 1.5hrs worth of queuing non EU passport holders at Geneva airport last Sunday.

 

[syvictoria]

I could certainly consider my British passport to be nothing more than transactional. However, I feel a significant connection to my other two nationalities, those being the paternal and maternal sides of my family. I also feel incredibly fortunate to have them both available to me - and wish my partner, who would agree, had likewise.

 

[benjenbav]

I’m English. I have a British passport. Over the years I’ve owned houses in France and in Canada. I was a post-graduate student in USA (where, incidentally, my mother was born). I’ve worked on extended projects in Germany. In all of those countries I’ve met people that I’ve liked and enjoyed aspects of their culture. But, have never felt I belonged there. In short, I’ve felt like a foreigner.

I’m more likely to paint watercolours than flags on roundabouts and yet I identify with England. It’s not perfect; there is much wrong. But its problems are my problems; it’s where I’m from and nowhere else is.

If that means I need to join long queues to enjoy what the Sex Pistols described as ‘cheap holidays in other people’s misery’ then so be it.

It also helps that I have no desire to travel to anywhere whatsoever in any event.

None of the above is intended as a criticism of what other folks do or want to do. I have many friends with multiple passports and, whilst I wish them the best, that makes no appeal to me.

 

[Roberto]

A number of my British friends married to French people have asked (and obtained) dual citizenship, swearing allegiance to La Republique etc etc, good starter for banter during the 6 Nations

 

[kingsebi]

I wrote an email to the address OP posted. Will let you know what they say.

I basically got the same answer as OP:

Thank you for contacting Your Europe Advice.

You did not tell us if your wife holds an Austrian residence permit. We have assumed this is not the case.

1. As the family member of an Austrian national and EU citizen, your wife should be able to stay for over 90 days within the Schengen area when your wife accompanies you.

2. However, your wife remains subject to the 90-day when staying with your wife in Austria. Your wife cannot stay in Austria for more than 90 days in any 180-day period. This is unless your wife applies for a long-term visa or for a residence permit for family members of Austrian citizens.

3. The 90-day rule fully applies to your wife when she spends time in Austria with you, her Austrian spouse. This is because in such a case you, as an Austrian citizen, are not exercising your free movement rights in an EU country beside your own and therefore the dispensation from the 90-day limit under the Schengen Border Code does not apply.

4. Furthermore, any days spent in any EU country when your wife travels by herself will also count towards the 90-day rules as the dispensation only applies during the time that she is accompanying her EU citizen relative.

5. When you and your wife will be travelling within the EU, we advise you both to carry a copy of this advice and your marriage certificate alongside your valid passports as well as travel tickets for the past 180 days.

6. You should produce this advice to immigration officials in case your wife's presence in the EU is questioned. Specific reference should be made to the extracts from the Practical Handbook for Border Guards at point 12 below.

7. We also suggest that you download a copy of this Practical Handbook for Border Guards and refer to pages 20 and 21: https://data.consilium.europa.eu/doc/document/ST-14348-2022-ADD-1/en/pdf

8. Different language versions are available here: Register of Commission Documents

9. We explain the rules in more detail further below.

10. We can confirm that when your wife travels with you within the Schengen area, as the family member of an Austrian national and EU citizen, she is not subject to the 90-day limitation on your stay (except in Austria).

11. As the family member of an EU citizen, your wife is entitled to stay for over 90 days within the Schengen area when travelling in your company.

12. This means, in theory, the 90-day rule does not therefore apply to family members of an EU citizen.

a. This is confirmed in the Practical Handbook for Border Guards issued to Schengen countries at page 21:

In the case of third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens, they have the right of residence in a Member State for a period of up to three months if they are in possession of a valid passport and are accompanying or joining the EU, EEA or CH citizen, without any limitation to 90 days in a 180-day period.

To be noted that third-country nationals who are family members of EU, EEA and CH citizens are entitled to accompany or join the EU, EEA or CH citizen for consecutive periods of up to three months per Schengen State without any conditions or formalities (except the need to have a visa for third-country nationals from a country subject to a visa requirement where the person is not in possession of a valid residence card or a residence permit as further explained in point 2.8 of this Section).

When the family member travels on his/her own and does not hold a valid residence card or a residence permit (see point 2.8 of this Section), the normal regime concerning the length of the short stay will (re)start to apply, as the conditions for benefiting from the facilitations concerning the free movement of the EU, EEA and CH citizens and their families are not met anymore.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Some folks do; some don’t. I don’t consider my passport a transactional document.

Interesting response .... tribalism can be defined by many artificial borders, some geographical, some not. Football team, religion, housing estate, town, county, in the UK do you feel English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish, or an ethnic group beyond those? You get a passport for one of these "tribes" .... but can be a member of many, and being fanatical about any of these clubs mean you can be manipulated into hatred and violence.

A dual citizen is no different to a Brit holding a U.K. passport and a Man U season ticket IMO. Both are tribes you can join by jumping through the appropriate hoops, and both grant membership privelidges to holders.

I happen to have been born in the U.K. and had no choice in the matter but got a UK Passport as a result. I chose Germany to live and work, and bring up my kids many years ago ... it used to be easy under the EU membership ... now it's an issue. I have a German passport because my original tribe was persuaded to throw away my freedoms, I had no choice in that either. So yes, I no longer see nationality and nationalism as a force for good, especially in the U.K. and it has become transactional for me. I am eternally grateful to the Germans for being accepting of me and making it so easy to join their club and allow my life to continue as it was, whereas the flag sh@gging roundabout painters make me embarrased to be carrying a UK passport.

 

[benjenbav]

L

Interesting response .... tribalism can be defined by many artificial borders, some geographical, some not. Football team, religion, housing estate, town, county, in the UK do you feel English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish, or an ethnic group beyond those? You get a passport for one of these "tribes" .... but can be a member of many, and being fanatical about any of these clubs mean you can be manipulated into hatred and violence.

A dual citizen is no different to a Brit holding a U.K. passport and a Man U season ticket IMO. Both are tribes you can join by jumping through the appropriate hoops, and both grant membership privelidges to holders.

I happen to have been born in the U.K. and had no choice in the matter but got a UK Passport as a result. I chose Germany to live and work, and bring up my kids many years ago ... it used to be easy under the EU membership ... now it's an issue. I have a German passport because my original tribe was persuaded to throw away my freedoms, I had no choice in that either. So yes, I no longer see nationality and nationalism as a force for good, especially in the U.K. and it has become transactional for me. I am eternally grateful to the Germans for being accepting of me and making it so easy to join their club and allow my life to continue as it was, whereas the flag sh@gging roundabout painters make me embarrased to be carrying a UK passport.

You live, work and have brought your family up in Germany and dislike what the UK has become to the extent of being embarrassed to hold a UK passport.

I don’t see an issue with choosing X over Y. Your life; your choices.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

You live, work and have brought your family up in Germany and dislike what the UK has become to the extent of being embarrassed to hold a UK passport.

I don’t see an issue with choosing X over Y. Your life; your choices.

I choose X and Y as it's the only way to retain the freedom I had.