Entry level boat - YM October

[lustyd]

I think the reality is that very few people actually choose to start in a small boat. Even Dylan has said in the past that lack of funds are the only reason he discovered shallow water sailing.

Eh?! 75k not a lot when in a decent job? What's a decent job to you? Most people I know in decent jobs earning 60k plus do not have that kind of cash spare for a boat.

That's the thing though, the people who are genuinely good with money (I'm not in this group) don't NEED to have £75k to buy the boat because they borrow it and don't lose too much over the life of the boat.
Many of us in the group you describe (good salary, no money) would happily buy a £75k boat but have accrued debts for one reason or another which prevent it. Myself, I enjoyed Uni a little too much and refused to get a part time job because there were 2 million unemployed people who needed them more than me

 

[obmij]

It doesn't sound unreasonable if you want to buy new.

If you wanted to buy new in August 1986 'Entry Level' - according to a report I downloaded from YBW was 26ft and £20000 which taking into account inflation is around £55k today.

That got you a Griffon, A Newbridge Pioneer, a Hunter Horizon or a Sadler 26

There are 1000's of these boats still around so I guess that would have been a reasonable entry level cruiser size and price at the time for many people.

 

[obmij]

Btw - it would be interesting to know the size and price of the cheapest CRUISING yacht you can buy new today..

Something in which you can head off for a weekend with the missus and a couple of kids.

 

[Seven Spades]

I think you are wrong, paying 75K for a boat with a mortgage is easy for anyone with a decent job. It is much harder to find the mooring fees. You have to remember that this is Yachting Monthy so 75K is towards the bottom end for them, if you read PBO then the bottom end starter boat is going to be something around £20K. YM are simply catering to their readership.

Boating is a metter of priorities, lots of people own flats/villas in Spain, even more buy Porches, Jags, Audi Q7's (We see tons of these on the school runs around here) and Mercs. There is no shortage of people who can afford to pay £75k for the boat.

With top tax now running at 52% and VAT at 20% for a rich man to buy a £75,000 boat at his marginal rates he will have a have to earn £156,250 to pay for something that actually costs just £62,500. And the Nick Clegg says the rich need to pay their "Fair share" (Confused)

 

[jordanbasset]

With top tax now running at 52% and VAT at 20% for a rich man to buy a £75,000 boat at his marginal rates he will have a have to earn £156,250 to pay for something that actually costs just £62,500. And the Nick Clegg says the rich need to pay their "Fair share" (Confused)

Can't see how your figures add up - tax rates are


Basic rate: 20% - £0-£34,370

Higher rate: 40% £ £34,371-£150,000

Additional rate: 50% Over £150,000

You only pay national insurance of around 10% on your first 34,000, then only 2% on rest. So a man earning £156,000 would pay around £54000 tax ( about 35% in tax)and would be left with £102,000, more than enough to buy the boat, infact he could afford a Bavaria 38!

Edit, just realised you may mean that after he has earned £150,000 he would then need to earn a further £156,000 to pay for it, giving them a total income of £306,000. I suppose that is the problems that come with high wages, the majority of us must consider ourselves very lucky we don't have to worry about tax rates on more than £300,000.

 

[wotayottie]

Eh?! 75k not a lot when in a decent job? What's a decent job to you? Most people I know in decent jobs earning 60k plus do not have that kind of cash spare for a boat.

and those who can spend 75k ( maybe the banks money) on a new one.

My first boat 22 years ago cost me £20k which with average inflation since then would be 50k now. It was 26ft and second hand. And I wouldnt say that I was in a particularly good job at that time. Standards of living have improved since then - just look at the numbers of expensive cars there are around.

Most of us suffer from the same issue - our personal scale of values gets fixed in our younger days and we consequently think that prices charged for things today are extortionate. "Who would ever have thought they could charge more than 20k for a Ford car - they used to be less than £1000".

 

[Seven Spades]

Yes that's correct I was talking about all the earnings in the high rate band.

 

[Searush]

Well, I've been sailing (cruisers) for 30 odd years & still couldn't buy a new one, of any size - and even if I could, I wouldn't because they are pretty poor value compared to a well equipped & maintained used one.

My starter boat (age around 30 with 2 young kids & a reasonable non-management job) was a £5k Westerly 25, paid for out of a small savings policy & a We thought we owned the world, even if I could only stand up under the hatch & all 4 berths were in one open plan cabin. Equivalent price today? Don't really know, but using house prices, probably around £20-25K, which would buy a better boat than I currently have!

 

[Chrusty 1]

If that's true, it is very sad. I suppose it is highly dependant on where you live.

No, it's more about what you earn and how much of it you have left after you have paid all your outgoings.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Btw - it would be interesting to know the size and price of the cheapest CRUISING yacht you can buy new today..

Something in which you can head off for a weekend with the missus and a couple of kids.

Not a lot. It costs a bit more though if you want to come back as well.

 

[Chrusty 1]

Not a lot. It costs a bit more though if you want to come back as well.

 

[RobbieH]

Well, I've been sailing (cruisers) for 30 odd years & still couldn't buy a new one, of any size - and even if I could, I wouldn't because they are pretty poor value compared to a well equipped & maintained used one.

Yup - they are pretty poor value if you buy them to use. If you buy them to sell after a reasonably short time new boats can look like better value.

I bought an old but structurally sound Dufour Arpege 5 years ago (there are loads of bad ones around and not many good ones). It was a love affair thing, since I was 20 I had wanted an Arpege so there was precious little good financial analysis before doing the deal.

Adding up all the costs of equipping the boat to date I could have (perhaps) afforded a Bavaria 30 at basic sailaway.

I have no doubt that for the type of sailing I do the Arpege is a much better boat (taking into account how I have equipped her) - but viewed purely as a financial investment (relative to a new Bav) she could be seen as a a complete disaster

I doubt if I will recuperate 50% of the money I have spent on her when I sell(and I am not counting the running costs and normal maintenance here, just the upgrades and new toys).

That's partly why I am putting off selling - even tho' I would like a slightly "tougher" boat (steel/alu, "Landrover of the high seas" sort of thing for some of the projects I have in mind). I can't face the reality of doing the final accounts on the Arpege.

Plus I still have my 30 year old romantic dream of the voyages I could make in the Arpege but I'm not sure if I am still that adventurous any more. If I would get laid-off I think I would just say "f%*k it" and go but I don't have the impetus/momentum right now to leave my comfortable life. Drifting not navigating ...

Anyway the upshot of the ramble is I think whether you buy new or "pre-owned" very much depends on whether you are buying a boat as a financial instrument, a floating caravan or a vessel in which to make voyages.

 

[YachtAllegro]

What would be quite interesting is to look at this the other way round and wonder what sort of person does buy a new Hanse 325? I suspect YM are quite right, and most are sold to people buying their first boat. Whether for good or ill, a 32 footer is at the bottom end of the "new" market these days, so most are probably bought as first boats.

However, that's not say that there's not a huge "parallel universe" of people starting out on small secondhand boats. But, I suspect, these people (among whom I include myself) are probably going to "upgrade" to bigger secondhand boats, not to a bottom end new boat like a Hanse 325.

Cheers
Patrick

 

[Fantasie 19]

I have to say that it is one of the reasons I seldom go to boat shows anymore

I feel completely outgunned - financially speaking

D

I'm the other way - I go to Boatshows as it's the only chance I get to go on these boats...

Btw - it would be interesting to know the size and price of the cheapest CRUISING yacht you can buy new today..

Something in which you can head off for a weekend with the missus and a couple of kids.

Yarmouth 22 (which I fell for big time at SIBS) between £39K and £46K depending on level of fit out....

Hunter 20 Mini C - from £30K

 

[Chrusty 1]

I went to LIBS once, it was, oh let me see, back in 73 I think? First and last time. I prefer shows like Beale Park, much more interesting!

 

[wotayottie]

Plus I still have my 30 year old romantic dream of the voyages I could make in the Arpege but I'm not sure if I am still that adventurous any more. If I would get laid-off I think I would just say "f%*k it" and go but I don't have the impetus/momentum right now to leave my comfortable life. Drifting not navigating ...

That very neatly sums up life for most of us.

 

[BruceDanforth]

If I had £75k to spend on sailing it would be spent on enabling me to go places in my existing or similar small boat. I'd be aiming to get to places no bugger was at so being seen in a white shiny expensive thing as a status symbol wouldn't figure.

 

[flawed_logic]

Well, I've been sailing (cruisers) for 30 odd years & still couldn't buy a new one, of any size - and even if I could, I wouldn't because they are pretty poor value compared to a well equipped & maintained used one.

My starter boat (age around 30 with 2 young kids & a reasonable non-management job) was a £5k Westerly 25, paid for out of a small savings policy & a We thought we owned the world, even if I could only stand up under the hatch & all 4 berths were in one open plan cabin. Equivalent price today? Don't really know, but using house prices, probably around £20-25K, which would buy a better boat than I currently have!

If everyone had that view there wouldn't be any secondhand boats!

 

[Joker]

What is more interesting is why none of the big builders make anything smaller than 32 foot.

 

[Barr Avel]

What is more interesting is why none of the big builders make anything smaller than 32 foot.

Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 30i
Beneteau First 20, 25S, 30, 25 Platu etc...