Entry level boat - YM October
- Thread starter blackbeard
- Start date
flawed_logic
Well-Known Member
Comes down to cost and profit. It costs a lot of money for the builders to design, test and tool up. They make a much better return the bigger they are. Also small doesn't mean cheap, the smaller boat builders which build more limited productions runs and are usually hand finished cost as much if not more than a baby brav.
AMCD300
Well-Known Member
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Well in a way that's always going to be true. But I don't think it's true that "most people cannot afford a boat". It just depends what you mean by 'boat'!
For example, a kid I know worked all summer and at age 14 bought himself a Wayfarer. Keeps it on a free running mooring and his annual running costs are basically nil. I give him a tow with the car whenever his parents can't. That little boat gets more use than any of the yachts in the harbour.
It would be a very sad world indeed if a hard working kid couldn't afford to run a boat.
graham
Well-Known Member
I will bet he gets more fun than any one else and will graduate into a fine sailor not reliant on the latest plastic gadget.
Joker
Well-Known Member
Let me put it another way - there were very few boats on display in the price range between £25k and £75k - or perhaps there were, and I missed them.
Angele
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone has mentioned that one of the drivers why some people end up buying a boat in the mid 30's feet as their first boat is that it is the type of boat on which they learned to sail (e.g following the RYA syllabus).
Someone wanting to get into sailing (or back into sailing after an extended break as in my case) but without access to a mate with a boat, is very tempted to pay for a berth on a weekend skippered charter or a Comp Crew RYA course. The vast majority of these will be AWB's in the 35-40 foot range. As they get more experienced so they end up chartering the same type of boat.
Eventually, they decide to buy and what type of boat are they immediately attracted towards? A similar boat to the one they did their Day Skipper on and have been chartering for the last x years.
Someone wanting to get into sailing (or back into sailing after an extended break as in my case) but without access to a mate with a boat, is very tempted to pay for a berth on a weekend skippered charter or a Comp Crew RYA course. The vast majority of these will be AWB's in the 35-40 foot range. As they get more experienced so they end up chartering the same type of boat.
Eventually, they decide to buy and what type of boat are they immediately attracted towards? A similar boat to the one they did their Day Skipper on and have been chartering for the last x years.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
On this forum we regularly get people saying 'Is the xxxx 45 suitable as a first boat?' and the answer is always 'go for it'. One one occasion a newbie was determined that nothing smaller than 55 ft would do.
C
Chrusty 1
Guest
blackbeard
Well-Known Member
Thanks to everyone who has replied to this thread. I confess that my original post may have been a bit of a rant (though nothing to what SWMBO said on seeing the article in question!).
Back to the cover of YM Oct 2012. We see
"Hanse 325 Affordable new entry-level family cruiser".
Now it is clear, from replies received, that no Scuttlebutter would be taken in by this. Indeed the heading is ambiguous; on one level (to the reasonably experienced and knowledgeable) it seems entirely reasonable. It is not the reaction of the experienced which gives me cause for concern, but the reaction of someone with little experience but who rather fancies the idea of going sailing. The following wrong conclusions may then be reached:
a. £75,000 is affordable (wait till he sees the running costs!). Conclusion: yachting is a sport only for rich men, or at least the moderately well-off. I don't wish my sailing to be considered a sport only for the well-heeled, and replies to the thread indicate clearly that it's a sport for everyone.
b. Entry-level. Clearly this means that one needs such a boat to enter the sport - doesn't it? Again, replies show clearly that this is not necessarily so. Not that I would have anything against someone who, after gaining a little knowledge and experience, maybe on a course or otherwise, buys such a boat and sails off happily. But it's not the only way!
c. Family. Works for some. But not all family members want to sail, nor see themselves as crew - not all the time anyway. If this becomes apparent after purchase, family friction is possible.
In view of the above I do not believe that the YM editorial team, excellent people that they all are, are entirely responsible for the wording in question. Rather, it seems to me, it's the creation of some marketing type who, in a rare moment of carelessness, was let out of his cage.
Again, I say, I have nothing against the YM editorial team, nor against Hanse. Indeed, should YM staff have a whip-round to collect loose change in the YM office in order to pay for this very affordable boat, with a view to presenting it to me as a gift, I would be pleased to graciously accept it.
Back to the cover of YM Oct 2012. We see
"Hanse 325 Affordable new entry-level family cruiser".
Now it is clear, from replies received, that no Scuttlebutter would be taken in by this. Indeed the heading is ambiguous; on one level (to the reasonably experienced and knowledgeable) it seems entirely reasonable. It is not the reaction of the experienced which gives me cause for concern, but the reaction of someone with little experience but who rather fancies the idea of going sailing. The following wrong conclusions may then be reached:
a. £75,000 is affordable (wait till he sees the running costs!). Conclusion: yachting is a sport only for rich men, or at least the moderately well-off. I don't wish my sailing to be considered a sport only for the well-heeled, and replies to the thread indicate clearly that it's a sport for everyone.
b. Entry-level. Clearly this means that one needs such a boat to enter the sport - doesn't it? Again, replies show clearly that this is not necessarily so. Not that I would have anything against someone who, after gaining a little knowledge and experience, maybe on a course or otherwise, buys such a boat and sails off happily. But it's not the only way!
c. Family. Works for some. But not all family members want to sail, nor see themselves as crew - not all the time anyway. If this becomes apparent after purchase, family friction is possible.
In view of the above I do not believe that the YM editorial team, excellent people that they all are, are entirely responsible for the wording in question. Rather, it seems to me, it's the creation of some marketing type who, in a rare moment of carelessness, was let out of his cage.
Again, I say, I have nothing against the YM editorial team, nor against Hanse. Indeed, should YM staff have a whip-round to collect loose change in the YM office in order to pay for this very affordable boat, with a view to presenting it to me as a gift, I would be pleased to graciously accept it.
Bav34
...
Totally agree hence my original post. Marketing not journalism.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
Excellent point
I had not thought of that
it is a bit the way that driving school instructors can get some incredible deals on cars
my trailer dunking neighbour who bought an Express Pirate for £500 from ebay has had some cracking good weekends on his little boat
walks around with a happy simile on his face
he was going to go on a week long training course before he bought the boat
I am afraid I told him to sail first... then decide
it will be intersting to see if he still thinks that spending £500 for a week on a 35 foot deep keel caravan with six other people has much relevance to a bit of creek crawling in a cheap little boat around the Colne and Blackwater
I had not thought of that
it is a bit the way that driving school instructors can get some incredible deals on cars
my trailer dunking neighbour who bought an Express Pirate for £500 from ebay has had some cracking good weekends on his little boat
walks around with a happy simile on his face
he was going to go on a week long training course before he bought the boat
I am afraid I told him to sail first... then decide
it will be intersting to see if he still thinks that spending £500 for a week on a 35 foot deep keel caravan with six other people has much relevance to a bit of creek crawling in a cheap little boat around the Colne and Blackwater
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I am nearer to "departure level", after owning boats for forty years, but I do in fact sail around on an "entry level" 37 footer... 1951 style.
In that year my boat (the one in the avatar) was sold, by George Jones, yacht broker, YM East Coast correspondent and father of Julia Jones the novelist, to the chap who sold her to me 33 years later, as "an ideal boat to learn to sail in".
No sailing schools in those days - he and his wife just stepped aboard, copy of Hiscock in hand, and set off... five years later they won their class in the North Sea Race.
So I conclude that nothing has changed...
In that year my boat (the one in the avatar) was sold, by George Jones, yacht broker, YM East Coast correspondent and father of Julia Jones the novelist, to the chap who sold her to me 33 years later, as "an ideal boat to learn to sail in".
No sailing schools in those days - he and his wife just stepped aboard, copy of Hiscock in hand, and set off... five years later they won their class in the North Sea Race.
So I conclude that nothing has changed...
Barbican
Well-Known Member
I took it to mean entry level to their range, rather than the sport. ie entry level Oyster would be the 46, not the ideal first boat for a beginer.
Hagar
New Member
I also believe that when YM refer to it being entry level they meant entry level to the Hanse range.
Whole-heartedly agree with one of the earlier posts about YM being 'compromised' in their reviews due the dependency on advertising revenue from the large manufacturers. How often have you seen them completely thrash a boat. I guess that's a whole other post though.
Whole-heartedly agree with one of the earlier posts about YM being 'compromised' in their reviews due the dependency on advertising revenue from the large manufacturers. How often have you seen them completely thrash a boat. I guess that's a whole other post though.
Retired in Crete
Well-Known Member
My entry level boat was a Silhouette Mk 11 (sail no 38) for which I paid 600 GBP complete with a trailer.
If I am honest, I would say that I had more "fun" with that boat than any I have owned since. It was "home" for several years of holidays complete with 2 kids, was trailed all over the south and west of England and sailed, most weekends, summer and winter, out of Brightlingsea where it lived, on its trailer, in the council boat park.
It was true "boating on a budget", I had little cash but loved every minute of it. I do think that a lot of the fun element is missing with a 30 ft plus, brand new starter boat!
John
If I am honest, I would say that I had more "fun" with that boat than any I have owned since. It was "home" for several years of holidays complete with 2 kids, was trailed all over the south and west of England and sailed, most weekends, summer and winter, out of Brightlingsea where it lived, on its trailer, in the council boat park.
It was true "boating on a budget", I had little cash but loved every minute of it. I do think that a lot of the fun element is missing with a 30 ft plus, brand new starter boat!
John
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Have not read the whole thread but we started with a new entry level 36' Dufour classic. I suspect for a number a new boat with all mod cons means swmbo enjoys sailing and a number who get a mab with a bucket for a loo end up sailing on their own and wife states she hates sailing
I would add that I have been discussing with a lady at work what first boat her husband is being allowed to buy after years of flotilla holidays and pestering wife to buy a boat in uk.
They are looking at 32' to 36'. She is insisting it must have at least one large comfortable cabin and be able to enclose the cockpit with a tent to increase their living space. She is looking at it being used as a weekend cottage and occasional sails when weather is nice. I suspect he is looking for something to survive a F8. No bets on what type of boat they will finally buy.
I would add that I have been discussing with a lady at work what first boat her husband is being allowed to buy after years of flotilla holidays and pestering wife to buy a boat in uk.
They are looking at 32' to 36'. She is insisting it must have at least one large comfortable cabin and be able to enclose the cockpit with a tent to increase their living space. She is looking at it being used as a weekend cottage and occasional sails when weather is nice. I suspect he is looking for something to survive a F8. No bets on what type of boat they will finally buy.
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laika
Well-Known Member
Indeed. It's widely used marketing speak for "bottom of the range". I don't think HP or other large computer manufacturers expect to sell their "entry level" servers to people who've never used a computer before.
I question whether most people sailing in crowded waters regard inexperienced young families in new 9m cruisers as one of the major hazards (certainly not top of my worry list in the Solent) and suspect an analysis of reports posted in these fora would not finger that demographic as culprits in most collisions or near misses.
Habebty
Well-Known Member
That's what they told me when I bought mine, assuring me that I would have it for less than 3 years and trade in fo rlarger.
Wrong. It's my last boat, not my starter boat.
We were in the very fortunate position of being able to afford it, just, at the time.
7 years, no sign of trading it in.
Yep, that about sums my situation as well. My Sadler 290 was bought new in 2003/4 after a serendipitous visit to SIBS. Had the money and was in the right place at the right time. I could never afford to do it again so this will be my one and only new boat. Which is good because I love it.
I sold my entry boat ( a Pegasus 800) and moved up to the 290 and that's where I'll be staying
Interestingly, I could have bought a Bavaria 36 for just about the same money at the time but the 290 kind of said "buy me, I'm the right boat for you"
I suspect it was the test sail and twin keels that really sold it though.
Mtns
New Member
I wonder if they mean affordable as in affordable homes? One of the ways the government justify 300k new homes as affordable is by defining the word to mean sold at a percentage reduction on market value, I seem to remember it is 25% at the moment. Clever eh. So you could be getting a 100k boat for 75k, sounds like a bargain.
