Ensign?

[john_morris_uk]

I dont know what monolithic bureacratic state you are coming from, but local identity is not rebellion.

Identify all you like but until the UK government decides otherwise the correct ensign for a UK vessel is a red ensign. The fact that you can put any old tea towels up on your boat in UK waters is merely a mark of how liberal and easy going we are. The fact that anecdotally UK boats aren’t often challenged over their ensign concoctions when overseas doesn’t change the law either. If you want to make petty politically motivated stands then carry on, but you do it overseas at your risk. The risk in home waters is being noticed and thought of in ways politeness tells me not to say in public.

I’m sure everyone else thinks how big and clever people are when they put up any old bit of rag on their boat instead of the correct ensign.

 

[Wansworth]

Identify all you like but until the UK government decides otherwise the correct ensign for a UK vessel is a red ensign. The fact that you can put any old tea towels up on your boat in UK waters is merely a mark of how liberal and easy going we are. The fact that anecdotally UK boats aren’t often challenged over their ensign concoctions when overseas doesn’t change the law either. If you want to make petty politically motivated stands then carry on, but you do it overseas at your risk. The risk in home waters is being noticed and thought of in ways politeness tells me not to say in public.

I’m sure everyone else thinks how big and clever people are when they put up any old bit of rag on their boat instead of the correct ensign.

It’s a shame that in Spain it’s mandated by law to fly the Spanish flag leading to people buying the smallest they can find and leavingit to gradually deteriorate.aI bought the biggest I could for our size of boat and took it in when not aboard

 

[john_morris_uk]

It’s a shame that in Spain it’s mandated by law to fly the Spanish flag leading to people buying the smallest they can find and leavingit to gradually deteriorate.aI bought the biggest I could for our size of boat and took it in when not aboard

Same in France. Mandated by law IIRC.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Identify all you like but until the UK government decides otherwise the correct ensign for a UK vessel is a red ensign. The fact that you can put any old tea towels up on your boat in UK waters is merely a mark of how liberal and easy going we are. The fact that anecdotally UK boats aren’t often challenged over their ensign concoctions when overseas doesn’t change the law either. If you want to make petty politically motivated stands then carry on, but you do it overseas at your risk. The risk in home waters is being noticed and thought of in ways politeness tells me not to say in public.

I’m sure everyone else thinks how big and clever people are when they put up any old bit of rag on their boat instead of the correct ensign.

I doubt anyone thinks they are big and clever amending their flag, just expressing national identity - which is useful socially and politically.

The UK law is not the be all and end all, which is just as well as its a right shambles at the moment, and you seem to imagine problems that no one has ever experienced

 

[dgadee]

Identify all you like but until the UK government decides otherwise the correct ensign for a UK vessel is a red ensign. The fact that you can put any old tea towels up on your boat in UK waters is merely a mark of how liberal and easy going we are. The fact that anecdotally UK boats aren’t often challenged over their ensign concoctions when overseas doesn’t change the law either. If you want to make petty politically motivated stands then carry on, but you do it overseas at your risk. The risk in home waters is being noticed and thought of in ways politeness tells me not to say in public.

I’m sure everyone else thinks how big and clever people are when they put up any old bit of rag on their boat instead of the correct ensign.

A Scot's ensign "a bit of rag"! I'll set the crew on you.

 

[Minerva]

I really couldn't give a hoot what anyone flies on their own boat, but 'm always amazed how, to use a modern phrase - triggered - people get by other's choice in what flag they fly on the back of their boat

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I really couldn't give a hoot what anyone flies on their own boat, but 'm always amazed how, to use a modern phrase - triggered - people get by other's choice in what flag they fly on the back of their boat

I think some believe that if they restrict flags it will somehow preserve the Union. Sadly Westminsters shenanigans will almost certainly destroy the Union in my children's and possibly my lifetime - which I think is sad - and then what flag will English merchant and navy ships fly?

Flags may indeed be partly a sign of maintaining coherent identity in the face of dissolution, but they are not the cause of it

 

[[2574]]

it’s easy!

 

[dgadee]

I think some believe that if they restrict flags it will somehow preserve the Union. Sadly Westminsters shenanigans will almost certainly destroy the Union in my children's and possibly my lifetime - which I think is sad - and then what flag will English merchant and navy ships fly?

Flags may indeed be partly a sign of maintaining coherent identity in the face of dissolution, but they are not the cause of it

There are few English merchant ships left, I fear. When/If independence does happen no doubt there will be fewer.

 

[Wansworth]

There are few English merchant ships left, I fear. When/If independence does happen no doubt there will be fewer.

Quite a few super yachts though

 

[awol]

Quite a few super yachts though

With what some might call defaced red ensigns.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If you wanted to show which of the nations of the UK you were by flying a separate national flag you would not wear your national flag as a courtesy flag but on the other halliard along with your club flag, though having seen many courtesy flags on the wrong side, viewers might be hard pressed to understand your statement.

St Pirans Ensigns and Saltire Ensigns all abound, and I have even seen a St Davids Ensign (dragon flag with union jack in top left) and a Manx Ensign- though the latter two were in UK waters.

It cant be a matter for UK regulation abroad as one would then be outside the Uk jurisdiction, so simply a matter of what the local laws admin accept as recognisable. For instance there are many such cases regarding nationality where two nations prohibit dual nationality but Country A gives passport and A nationality to a person but cannot cancel their B nationality or passport from Country B and vice versa. Only USA gets antsi about it

The point has been made several times it's not UK, British or the foreign country law that the vessel enters it is international law which the vessel is required to follow and the officers, customs or marine police may chose to enforce with a fine or some other means or ignore, however there are several cases of vessels not having the correct documentation available or in the past such things as red diesel in cans having been fined by zealous customs officers and for sure had they not had the correct ensign that would have been added to the list.
As a duel national French British citizen residing and being taxed in France if I were to buy another boat I could in theory fly a different ensign to the French one but I would be required to follow French requirements for French flagged vessels so the French as one might expect do get arsey about such matters.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

The point has been made several times it's not UK, British or the foreign country law that the vessel enters it is international law which the vessel is required to follow and the officers, customs or marine police may chose to enforce with a fine or some other means or ignore, however there are several cases of vessels not having the correct documentation available or in the past such things as red diesel in cans having been fined by zealous customs officers and for sure had they not had the correct ensign that would have been added to the list.
As a duel national French British citizen residing and being taxed in France if I were to buy another boat I could in theory fly a different ensign to the French one but I would be required to follow French requirements for French flagged vessels so the French as one might expect do get arsey about such matters.

I have heard about red diesel as that is a tax issue. Flags are scraps of almost valueless cloth and I have not heard of issues for us minor liesure boaters.

There are enough real issues to worry about other than F F flags

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I have heard about red diesel as that is a tax issue. Flags are scraps of almost valueless cloth and I have not heard of issues for us minor liesure boaters.

There are enough real issues to worry about other than F F flags

Wriggle away all that is being stated is international law as applied to the identification of a vessel leaving or entering a foreign port which may or may not be applied by the officers of that country. By all means carry on wearing the teacloth or whatever other rag you chose it is of no concern of mine.

 

[Wansworth]

Flags are part and parcel of the traditions of the sea and still serve a purpose

 

[laika]

There are enough real issues to worry about other than F F flags

"I have intercepted SOS/MAYDAY from vessel (name or identity signal) (or aircraft) in position lat... long... at time indicated."

I dunno...FF flags sound pretty important to me

 

[capnsensible]

I dont know what monolithic bureacratic state you are coming from, but local identity is not rebellion.

And as for the "professional sailors", it is not their flag hoisting skills that bother me but the chaos and failing to pay attention from some flag of convenience ships, the rubbish safety culture of some ferry operators and the arrogance of some 1st world navies or cruise lines.

So everyone is out to get you....

Cmon, your complaints are almost entirely groundless, probably hearsay. And note well it's really only a certain type of stroppy Brit that gets so het up over ensigns. I've sailed around a lot of the planet and its only whiney in En ger land. Everyone else complies with the conventions of the sea and gets on with it. In fact, amazingly, plenty of people I've met out there are actually proud of their own flag and don't do drama queen about it.....

 

[john_morris_uk]

I doubt anyone thinks they are big and clever amending their flag, just expressing national identity - which is useful socially and politically.

The UK law is not the be all and end all, which is just as well as its a right shambles at the moment, and you seem to imagine problems that no one has ever experienced

Our national identity is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Within this are various countries. I have strong links with one of them as I have Welsh roots and have lived and worked in the principality and my wife is Welsh too but if I want to identify with that on our boat then the Welsh Dragon will go at the cross trees and the correct red or blue ensign on the stern.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Our national identity is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Within this are various countries. I have strong links with one of them as I have Welsh roots and have lived and worked in the principality and my wife is Welsh too but if I want to identify with that on our boat then the Welsh Dragon will go at the cross trees and the correct red or blue ensign on the stern.

Rarely heard such bollocks from anyone under 70

 

[john_morris_uk]

Rarely heard such bollocks from anyone under 70

Just point out which bit is inaccurate…