Ensign?

[Biggles Wader]

Phew! Time for an anchor thread then?

 

[Momac]

When I was in Scotland I was happy to fly a Saltire Ensign

Then continue to wear (not fly) that if it makes you happy.

 

[Refueler]

We generally found that Baltic citizens were confused by our red ensign. Most expected us to have the Union flag and we were often asked if we came from Australia, or if more sophisticated, New Zealand. One German official from a coastguard asked shouldn’t my ensign be white?, which pleased me greatly.

I'm surprised by that .... as many UK reg'd boats sail the Baltic ... the CA has a Baltic Section dedicated to it - I'm one of the HLR's in fact.

 

[johnalison]

I'm surprised by that .... as many UK reg'd boats sail the Baltic ... the CA has a Baltic Section dedicated to it - I'm one of the HLR's in fact.

Probably more now than when we first went there thirty odd years ago, but it certainly happened fifteen years ago when it was rare to meet a UK boat. We might encounter one or two in a couple of months there. It might be that our favoured areas, around Rugen, Poland and Bornholm were less visited by the British, who seem generally to favour Denmark and the Swedish east coast.

 

[Refueler]

Probably more now than when we first went there thirty odd years ago, but it certainly happened fifteen years ago when it was rare to meet a UK boat. We might encounter one or two in a couple of months there. It might be that our favoured areas, around Rugen, Poland and Bornholm were less visited by the British, who seem generally to favour Denmark and the Swedish east coast.

Its fair comment that UK boats do tend to favour the Swedish and Finnish Archipelago ... more to do and see. Latvian coast is pretty dull to be honest and anyone stopping along it - are usually just stopping for a rest or fuel.

 

[Refueler]

I am a great believer in identity and origin ... to be proud of ones heritage and nationality. But what I really detest is 'nationalism' which seems to be worming its way into life and societies.
Patriotism - absolutely ... but when nationalism rears its ugly head - its turns me right off.

As many know - Latvia is an independent State who in 1991 broke away from the USSR. It was inevitable and understandable that a regime would ensue that would create a society controlled by nationalists. But sadly that has not reduced over the years since.
It has over time and then compounded with joining the EU to have literally destroyed much of Latvian business. Professionals and trades people have up and left seeking better pastures ... while nationalists in authority have corrupted and protected themselves from the effects. The town I live in ... has reduced from ~40k to ~19k population .... overall Latvia has dropped from 2.3mill to about 1.7mill ....

I am not the only Business Owner that has basically shut down local work.

I may be over dramatic about it - but I cannot help but watch Scotland and the Independence movement going same way ...

 

[dgadee]

Not sure why you insist on calling it an "ensign" when it is not - it is just a flag. An ensign is a sign of the state of registry and nothing to do with the country of residence or citizenship of the owner or skipper but the flag state of the BOAT, not your "wife's ensign" - people do not have ensigns.

Of course nothing to stop you making up fantasies.

She bought it. It is her ensign (defined as "a flag on a ship that shows which country the ship belongs to" - Cambridge) and she says she is Scottish and the boat is half hers. You are welcome to give a legalistic lecture to her on her errors. I wish you luck.

 

[Dulcinea East]

"If the master or owner of a British ship does anything, or permits anything to be done, for the purpose of concealing the nationality of the ship, the ship shall be liable to forfeiture and the master, the owner and any charterer of the ship shall each be guilty of an offence." https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21

Flag etiquette | RYA

Apart from being rude, it's a legal thing. It would be breaking UK and International Law. You can be as republican as you like, but if you're happy enough for lighthouses etc to be paid for out of yor taxes, flying the Red Ensign would seem a minor inconvenience. English sailors are encouraged, but not required, to fly a courtesy Saltire or Welsh Dragon when visiting strangers ports. What is the issue.

 

[dgadee]

"If the master or owner of a British ship does anything, or permits anything to be done, for the purpose of concealing the nationality of the ship, the ship shall be liable to forfeiture and the master, the owner and any charterer of the ship shall each be guilty of an offence." https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21

Flag etiquette | RYA

Apart from being rude, it's a legal thing. It would be breaking UK and International Law. You can be as republican as you like, but if you're happy enough for lighthouses etc to be paid for out of yor taxes, flying the Red Ensign would seem a minor inconvenience. English sailors are encouraged, but not required, to fly a courtesy Saltire or Welsh Dragon when visiting strangers ports. What is the issue.

Rude? Where does that come from?

And that legislation only applies in UK waters. We are off in the far Med where there's - to date - little interest in enforcing UK law.

A friend used to keep his boat in France and flew an Ulster flag as his ensign. Not the NI one, but the pre-partition one including Donegal. He felt he was doing that for the purposes of friendly relationships between north and south. Was that rude?

Edit: for the legalists amongst you, it should be noted that flying a Scots ensign is not for the "purpose of concealing the nationality of the ship". Some ship's lawyers are not very good at ship lawyering, methinks.

 

[laika]

Apart from being rude, it's a legal thing. It would be breaking UK and International Law.

If there’s a polite way to say “poppycock” I’ll use it here. If you read a little further to section 5 it explicitly states when an ensign must be worn under the act: essentially when entering or leaving a foreign port or when signalled by one of HM’s ships. There is no requirement for a small boat to fly an ensign in uk waters as a matter of course. If you think it’s rude not to, don’t go out in the Solent on a race day without preparing to be offended

English sailors are encouraged, but not required, to fly a courtesy Saltire or Welsh Dragon when visiting strangers ports.

Encouraged by whom? I suspect you didn’t get that from a government or RYA web site. Does that same person encourage juggling st. Petroc’s and st. Piran’s crosses when passing rame head?

 

[ylop]

English sailors are encouraged, but not required, to fly a courtesy Saltire or Welsh Dragon when visiting strangers

As a proud Scot, this practice has always struck me as a bit bizzare. My boat wears a traditional red ensign. It would be perverse for me to fly a courtesy flag in my own country, so perhaps fellow passing Scot’s think I am a rude Englishman not displaying a courtesy saltire?

I find the flying of flags to generally be a weird obsession. In these parts a house with a flagpole in use is normally making a political point - and serves as a useful warning for others to steer clear (even if you are of a similar political disposition).

Chiara, the regulation of shipping/the Merchant Shipping Act is not a devolved matter; inventing flags with no actual benefit is probably not the best use of Scottish Government time.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Legal or not, we have flown it all the way from Belfast to Lesvos. My crew would have no other.

We flew the version of Cornish Ensign - Union Jack at top left on St Pirans Cross background which has precedent of the Cornish steamship Company (rather than alternative version of Red duster with St Pirans Cross at top left)- all the way to and from Brittany and no one batted an eye, and also all the way to Hebrides and back though as many boats we saw there were wearing the Saltire duster we knew they would understand the significance.

If one wishes to declare one is specifically English one could fly a St Georges duster (not the white ensign sometimes known as St Georges Ensign), though I know of no precedent, or who might make it for you. This is red duster with St Georges cross at top left - but as that does not have the recognisable union jack on it, so confusion might arise in foreign ports

 

[Fr J Hackett]

If you want to display your heritage or politics then it's quite simple you wear the red ensign and hoist a curtesy flag to suit your particular persuasion but if entering a foreign port be sure to wear it below ( inferior) to that of the country you are visiting. It's very simple.

 

[dgadee]

If you want to display your heritage or politics then it's quite simple you wear the red ensign and hoist a curtesy flag to suit your particular persuasion but if entering a foreign port be sure to wear it below ( inferior) to that of the country you are visiting. It's very simple.

Is that an order?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Is that an order?

Yes

 

[oldmanofthehills]

If you want to display your heritage or politics then it's quite simple you wear the red ensign and hoist a curtesy flag to suit your particular persuasion but if entering a foreign port be sure to wear it below ( inferior) to that of the country you are visiting. It's very simple.

If you wanted to show which of the nations of the UK you were by flying a separate national flag you would not wear your national flag as a courtesy flag but on the other halliard along with your club flag, though having seen many courtesy flags on the wrong side, viewers might be hard pressed to understand your statement.

St Pirans Ensigns and Saltire Ensigns all abound, and I have even seen a St Davids Ensign (dragon flag with union jack in top left) and a Manx Ensign- though the latter two were in UK waters.

It cant be a matter for UK regulation abroad as one would then be outside the Uk jurisdiction, so simply a matter of what the local laws admin accept as recognisable. For instance there are many such cases regarding nationality where two nations prohibit dual nationality but Country A gives passport and A nationality to a person but cannot cancel their B nationality or passport from Country B and vice versa. Only USA gets antsi about it

 

[KevinV]

a Manx Ensign

The Isle of Man has it's own registry, so a Manx ensign is official

 

[capnsensible]

I kinda look at it like this.

Professional seagoers abide by the conventions regarding ensigns, courtesy flags, signal flags etc. Its their job.

Amateurs don't have to really so all you onboard master, commanders, stroppy, can't tell me what to do Napolean tyrants, fill yer boots. If it makes you feel a bit special to be a non conformist rebel and a warm feeling in your pants, go for it! Yay!!

 

[TwoFish]

and a Manx Ensign

A little different from the others mentioned, as the IoM Civil Ensign is a 'proper national colours' British flag, pursuant to s 2(3)(b) of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 by virtue of the IoM being a 'relevant British possession' per s313 of that Act, those parts of the UK Act (and many others) also being incorporated into Manx law.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I kinda look at it like this.

Professional seagoers abide by the conventions regarding ensigns, courtesy flags, signal flags etc. Its their job.

Amateurs don't have to really so all you onboard master, commanders, stroppy, can't tell me what to do Napolean tyrants, fill yer boots. If it makes you feel a bit special to be a non conformist rebel and a warm feeling in your pants, go for it! Yay!!

I dont know what monolithic bureacratic state you are coming from, but local identity is not rebellion.

And as for the "professional sailors", it is not their flag hoisting skills that bother me but the chaos and failing to pay attention from some flag of convenience ships, the rubbish safety culture of some ferry operators and the arrogance of some 1st world navies or cruise lines.