Engine Faiilure.

[runner911]

I have owned a 2006 Merry Fisher 655 for the past 3 years.

The boat is fitted with a Volvo Penta D3 110 which I have to say has not performed particularly well insofar as it has developed several faults since I have owned the boat, the latest of which has proved to be the most serious.

The engine has just over 400 hours on it.

I moor the boat at Yachthaven in Plymouth.

Two weeks ago there was international power boat racing in Plymouth Sound. On the Sunday, racing started at 1115. I was anxious to avoid any contact with the event , and was steaming at 14 knots out through the Sound at 1105, my intention being to go wreck fishing in The Channel.

I was two thirds the way out when a large Princess came in at speed past the Breakwater , obviously wanting to return to its berth before the racing started.

The wake from the Princess was enormous and in consequence I reduced speed to 5 knots . When the wake hit me , the boat was thrown all over the place. When it finally passed , I opened up the throttle again and within a second or two the engine died and refused to start.

I was only 30 yards from the shore rocks as the racing course took up most of the Sound , and was very lucky to get a tow back to my berth.

At first I thought there was a fuel flow problem as the fuel level in the pre fuel filter was low. The message on the EVC display however read " Electrical system failure. Service required soon."

The local Volvo Penta agent subsequently attended , and it appears that the fuel injection pump has failed, with no fuel being delivered to the common rail, and in consequence none to the injectors.

A new pump has been ordered ( £1500 -------ouch ! ). The original style pump as fitted to my boat has been superseded by an updated version. Does this mean that the version I have has proved unreliable ? Anyone know ?

What I fail to understand is just how being thrown about by a violent wake could have caused the pump to fail, or is it related to me reducing the throttle very quickly to reduce speed.

Anyone any ideas ?

Volvo Paul, are you still involved with this forum ?

 

[stelican]

Hi
I read somewhere that the D3 engine is the same basic engine as the automotive D5, If so it maybe worth finding out if the fuel pumps are compatible as there are plenty on Ebay circa £100
Must be worth a punt

 

[volvopaul]

I cannot see why this wash caused this problem, have you had a dealer out to the boat and plugged the vodia in to read the codes, has he checked all the plugs on the engine as it sounds like a loose connection somewhere on the boats engine looms that's just fallen out of its socket , I had one recently on a D 6 whereby a cleaner had caught it while cleaning out the bilges . Yes the cp pumps do fail but your fault code would read another code, probably low fuel pressure on cranking. That code sound like a wiring loom fault.

I would not buy a used pump, there second hand for a reason.

Have you checked the m prop valve wiring plug?

 

[[2068]]

Yup, part number is 36002064, and they do turn up on ebay, e.g.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-NEW-diesel-pump-Volvo-XC60-/151060962377

But I'd be asking what the dealer meant by "failed" ... all mangled up inside with pieces of metal floating around ... electrical problem ... something seized ?
If they tell you exactly what has failed, that might give you a clue as to whether being rocked around made a difference.
Maybe some foreign object got lose upstream of the fuel filters and went into the pump, or it sucked in some water from the bottom of the tank for a bit?

I'd also be checking that they also tested the (much cheaper) fuel feed pump was working properly.

.

 

[NormanS]

Very often, if you have a problem after the boat has been jumping about, it is caused by dirt and / water in the tank, moving along and blocking a filter. But you would know if it was that....?

 

[Firefly625]

Very often, if you have a problem after the boat has been jumping about, it is caused by dirt and / water in the tank, moving along and blocking a filter. But you would know if it was that....?

That was what came to my mind, very odd and coincidental otherwise.

 

[mtb]

Very often, if you have a problem after the boat has been jumping about, it is caused by dirt and / water in the tank, moving along and blocking a filter. But you would know if it was that....?

+1

 

[tinkicker0]

I cannot see why this wash caused this problem, have you had a dealer out to the boat and plugged the vodia in to read the codes, has he checked all the plugs on the engine as it sounds like a loose connection somewhere on the boats engine looms that's just fallen out of its socket , I had one recently on a D 6 whereby a cleaner had caught it while cleaning out the bilges . Yes the cp pumps do fail but your fault code would read another code, probably low fuel pressure on cranking. That code sound like a wiring loom fault.

I would not buy a used pump, there second hand for a reason.

Have you checked the m prop valve wiring plug?

Plus 1 gazzilion. That is one problematic connector.

 

[spannerman]

I'd be very suspicious of this dealers diagnosis, as the D3 is a car engine and the EVC message 'Electrical fault, Service required' is used to cover a multitude of sins. In fact if you go into the software system on the Vodia scantool it has options to check the ABS, accelerator pedal, and various other functions which are not found on a boat but on a car as the software is lifted directly from the car world. The message is somewhat generic so I DEFINITELY wouldn't give the go ahead for a new pump without further proof it has failed which you can do by reading the rail pressure via the Vodia tool.
I would suspect you have either stirred up dirt in the tank blocking the filters, or the pickup pipe came uncovered if you were low on fuel allowing air into the filters, it may need no more than a good bleed to get it running again, or flushing of the system.
Get a second opinion by someone who knows how these engines work, and that doesn't always mean a dealer!

 

[volvopaul]

Sm , I couldn't of put it better other than this week I came across a similar d3 problem . Everything thus boat was left for around a week the owner had to bleed it at the primer filter head. Endless time spent with a dealer here in the uk and not sorted, while I was servicing I tested the primer pump head, I could hear air escaping past it and when pumped with my finger on the inlet port the primer button still returned to its out position , where as the good one from the other engine stayed down . Lets hope that was the problem as I could see fuel draining back from the filter head when the engine was stood.

 

[runner911]

All replies noted.

I have checked all plugs/connectors. None were loose.

The technician who attended did indeed plug in a Vodia diagnostic tool. The message " low pressure in fuel rail " came up.

The pre fuel filter is gravity fed from the tank, and as mentioned in my original post, I found that it was only about a quarter full.

There was however a free flow of fuel when the filter was opened.

Paul, ref the priming button which is on top of the fuel filter on the side of the engine. If I was to press the button now it would be soft. After 5-6 pumps it would be rock hard. If say I left it for 15 minutes it would have gone soft again. Are you saying that once it has been pumped up , it should stay firm ?

 

[spannerman]

By coincidence my last job on Friday on my way home before my hols was a D3 which had stopped and was towed in. There has been a few problems with the primer housing so there is a newer version which I took with me, but fortunately for him it was just the wiring on the ignition switch that had come loose. Just been out to the van to get the part number VP3884 825, we have changed lots as they either let air in or wouldn't pump up when you need to prime.
This will give a Low Fuel Pressure warning, if the primer button goes soft so quickly it sounds like its letting air in, and the fuel is most likely running back to the tank.

 

[tinkicker0]

All replies noted.

I have checked all plugs/connectors. None were loose.

The technician who attended did indeed plug in a Vodia diagnostic tool. The message " low pressure in fuel rail " came up.

The pre fuel filter is gravity fed from the tank, and as mentioned in my original post, I found that it was only about a quarter full.

There was however a free flow of fuel when the filter was opened.

Paul, ref the priming button which is on top of the fuel filter on the side of the engine. If I was to press the button now it would be soft. After 5-6 pumps it would be rock hard. If say I left it for 15 minutes it would have gone soft again. Are you saying that once it has been pumped up , it should stay firm ?

Mprop faulty or signal pulse length from ECM screwed up in view of the electric fault warning. I have known both to happen quite often, the latter after a sudden loss of electrical power to the ECM.

 

[volvopaul]

All replies noted.

I have checked all plugs/connectors. None were loose.

The technician who attended did indeed plug in a Vodia diagnostic tool. The message " low pressure in fuel rail " came up.

The pre fuel filter is gravity fed from the tank, and as mentioned in my original post, I found that it was only about a quarter full.

There was however a free flow of fuel when the filter was opened.

Paul, ref the priming button which is on top of the fuel filter on the side of the engine. If I was to press the button now it would be soft. After 5-6 pumps it would be rock hard. If say I left it for 15 minutes it would have gone soft again. Are you saying that once it has been pumped up , it should stay firm ?

If the engine is run with air in the system you will get the same fault code showing low rail pressure as air can be compressed, the m prop valve is bouncing off its seat in an attempt to maintain a constant pressure, are you sure he bled the system of air properly ? You can still get air in the rubber hose from the filter head tothe cp pump so that has to be bled while cranking then dispersed through the system.

Sm I fitted a few of the later filter head too, now they don't have the bleed screw either which in the past has been a source of air inlet to the system when the thread fails.

 

[runner911]

Just to finalise this thread.

The problem turned out to be the fuel injection pump. Why the original failed I have no idea. Must be one of those things I suppose.

Not really a good advert for the Volvo Penta D3 !

Think I'll start looking around for an auxiliary outboard to clamp on the dive platform of the boat before I venture too far again .

 

[rafiki_]

Thanks for the update, and I hope you are ok to enjoy this wonderful weather now.

 

[Latestarter1]

Just to finalise this thread.

The problem turned out to be the fuel injection pump. Why the original failed I have no idea. Must be one of those things I suppose.

Not really a good advert for the Volvo Penta D3 !

Think I'll start looking around for an auxiliary outboard to clamp on the dive platform of the boat before I venture too far again .

Not the end of the story I am afraid......................

I have been around the Bosch CP3 common rail pump since it was in prototype form. People were very skeptical about the fuel lubricated design, both from a reliability and durability stand point.

Now near 17 years on the CP3 has proved to be an extremely robust base design and Bosch have produced many millions of them, yes there have been glitches, originally Bosch required pump be replaced with faulty Mprop valve, later on they got real.

OP needs to start asking searching questions, without some answers the same failure could happen again.

What was EXACT failure mode of the pump. CP3 is a bench repair at just about every Bosch pump shop, no need of expensive factory replacements. With pump stripped real easy to establish cause of failure, most likely contaminated fuel.

Has the whole pump been changed simple due due to faulty Mprop?? You MUST have answers, because if failure is due to contaminated fuel pump WILL fail as sure as night follows day.

Before the bill is settled ask all of the above............Remember, these pumps do not fail for no reason.

 

[volvopaul]

The d3s seem to eat pumps for some reason, next time ill ask the question at the pump shop, I know when fuel supply is a problem the seat on the valve takes a real bashing.

 

[Latestarter1]

The d3s seem to eat pumps for some reason, next time ill ask the question at the pump shop, I know when fuel supply is a problem the seat on the valve takes a real bashing.

Mmmmm...Do I take it that D3 uses different set up from D4/6 with gear pump on back of the CP3.

In common rail automotive applications fuel is normally supplied via constant pressure pump in the fuel tank, as D3 is basically an automotive motor, so what is the set up for marine?

Either way certainly not a £1,500 replacement pump job.

Not sure I should be here, this is a Green Engine, will be learning Swedish next!

 

[volvopaul]

Mmmmm...Do I take it that D3 uses different set up from D4/6 with gear pump on back of the CP3.

In common rail automotive applications fuel is normally supplied via constant pressure pump in the fuel tank, as D3 is basically an automotive motor, so what is the set up for marine?

Either way certainly not a £1,500 replacement pump job.

Not sure I should be here, this is a Green Engine, will be learning Swedish next!

D3/4/6 doesn't have an electric pump to feed it, it sucks from the tank, there is a primer head on the second filter so you can bleed the system on service.

I agree about this guys repair I bet it just needed a new m prop valve and bleeding up. I can't see how the pump would fail in such a short space of time.