petem
Well-Known Member
My standard fit Engel Fairline galley has stopped working. The light comes on so it's got power but the compressor isn't starting. Any ideas? Knackered thermostat?
Engel fridge not working
- Thread starter petem
- Start date
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Are those fridges dual 220/ 12 v in your case ?
Reason
If so the switch thingy which is automatic and prioritises mains might be knackered .So it’s actually running on 12 v .House batts it may have a dead batt / flattening protector , which cuts the comp below a certain batt V in order to protect them
Light comes on but comp is off .
To diagnose ^^^
Gets a bit tricky, you basically need to isolate every bat load , ie switch off if shore bound and let the charger attempt to recharge the house batts ,or go for a long run on the engines .
There’s another sinister reason ......
Chargers decaying
They just don’t pack up right a light bulb they slowly decay in terms of output .You just assume they are not kicking out much because they don’t have the demand , but all the time the house batts on shorepower are depleting until below fridge voltage comp cut out .The V regulator may have been knackered a while and the fridge running on house batts masked this .
We had the identical issue a fridge with light on but seemingly no comp .Intermittent.
It turned on with a run out - alternators , for a while , seemed on immediately after hooking up in a marina then switched off
.Turned out the 40 ah charger was only giving out 4 ah max , so unable to keep the house batts tops up with normal marina usage , hence the fridge felt it first .
So
Faulty 220/bat controller - take boat for a long run .
Faulty charger - ditto
Weak house bats - struggling to hold charge - test them with a basic voltmeter I think you are looking for over 12.7 ?
Our boat sparky did the diagnostics.Replaced the fridge V regulator and the charger - bigger 80 ah after he did some calcs .
Once all this tests through, go shopping for a new fridge .
Reason
If so the switch thingy which is automatic and prioritises mains might be knackered .So it’s actually running on 12 v .House batts it may have a dead batt / flattening protector , which cuts the comp below a certain batt V in order to protect them
Light comes on but comp is off .
To diagnose ^^^
Gets a bit tricky, you basically need to isolate every bat load , ie switch off if shore bound and let the charger attempt to recharge the house batts ,or go for a long run on the engines .
There’s another sinister reason ......
Chargers decaying
They just don’t pack up right a light bulb they slowly decay in terms of output .You just assume they are not kicking out much because they don’t have the demand , but all the time the house batts on shorepower are depleting until below fridge voltage comp cut out .The V regulator may have been knackered a while and the fridge running on house batts masked this .
We had the identical issue a fridge with light on but seemingly no comp .Intermittent.
It turned on with a run out - alternators , for a while , seemed on immediately after hooking up in a marina then switched off
.Turned out the 40 ah charger was only giving out 4 ah max , so unable to keep the house batts tops up with normal marina usage , hence the fridge felt it first .
So
Faulty 220/bat controller - take boat for a long run .
Faulty charger - ditto
Weak house bats - struggling to hold charge - test them with a basic voltmeter I think you are looking for over 12.7 ?
Our boat sparky did the diagnostics.Replaced the fridge V regulator and the charger - bigger 80 ah after he did some calcs .
Once all this tests through, go shopping for a new fridge .
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kashurst
Well-Known Member
Fingers crossed its just a corroded connection on the back of the control box on the fridge.
Pull the fridge out of its' housing so you cab get at it - unplug/isolate the mains supply to it first.
On the control box there are usually about six connections, +12v 0v, 240v 240V, thermostat 1&2, fan (if fitted) possibly a couple more. They can get covered in condensation etc and the connections rot away.
With a multimeter first measure the +12v supply -usually the fat red and black pair of wires disappearing back into the boat. Should be the same as the boat battery voltage. If it's within 0.25V that's fine otherwise could be a dodgy connection at the circuit breaker end. Go check that out.
If the 12v supply is OK carefully pull off the push on connectors one at time and examine them - fingers crossed one or more of them has failed. If you can identify the thermostat connections (2 thin wires) disconnect them both and use your multimeter to measure continuity through the thermostat as you operate the thermostat. The thermostats are just bi-metallic switches. When its closed (on) you should see 0 ohms, open (off) infinite ohms.
If all the connections are OK and the thermostat is OK its either the compressor or the control box. Its possible to measure the output voltage to the compressor but I can't remember exactly what it is (24v AC?) - set the multimeter to 250 AC volts and see what's coming out when the thermostat is on (closed) and the +12v DC supply is on.
good luck
Pull the fridge out of its' housing so you cab get at it - unplug/isolate the mains supply to it first.
On the control box there are usually about six connections, +12v 0v, 240v 240V, thermostat 1&2, fan (if fitted) possibly a couple more. They can get covered in condensation etc and the connections rot away.
With a multimeter first measure the +12v supply -usually the fat red and black pair of wires disappearing back into the boat. Should be the same as the boat battery voltage. If it's within 0.25V that's fine otherwise could be a dodgy connection at the circuit breaker end. Go check that out.
If the 12v supply is OK carefully pull off the push on connectors one at time and examine them - fingers crossed one or more of them has failed. If you can identify the thermostat connections (2 thin wires) disconnect them both and use your multimeter to measure continuity through the thermostat as you operate the thermostat. The thermostats are just bi-metallic switches. When its closed (on) you should see 0 ohms, open (off) infinite ohms.
If all the connections are OK and the thermostat is OK its either the compressor or the control box. Its possible to measure the output voltage to the compressor but I can't remember exactly what it is (24v AC?) - set the multimeter to 250 AC volts and see what's coming out when the thermostat is on (closed) and the +12v DC supply is on.
good luck
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stelican
Well-Known Member
Known this to happen, Worth getting a spare thermo
stelican
Well-Known Member
if you have the wiring diagram you can link across thermo terminals to check out if duff, Make sure it is switched to on to test!
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Turn off 240 and see if it works
Mine only works on 24v supply as the change over for the 240 is dead ( turn on 240 and it stops working) . This cause no practical issue and changing the module is all but impossible given its location
The odds are it is the same fridge
Mine only works on 24v supply as the change over for the 240 is dead ( turn on 240 and it stops working) . This cause no practical issue and changing the module is all but impossible given its location
The odds are it is the same fridge
petem
Well-Known Member
Despite trying a new powerpack and clouting the compressor, it looks like the fridge is dead. Has anyone with a Fairline replaced the standard Engel fridge? Looks like a Waeco CRE65 or CRX65 is the closest match size wise.
Also, these Waeco fridges require an extra transformer to run them from 240v. Is this necessary or is it OK to run constantly from the battery a la JRudge above (note that we only ever have the fridge on when we're onboard, either on shore power with the battery charger running or running off the batter at anchor)?
Also, these Waeco fridges require an extra transformer to run them from 240v. Is this necessary or is it OK to run constantly from the battery a la JRudge above (note that we only ever have the fridge on when we're onboard, either on shore power with the battery charger running or running off the batter at anchor)?
jrudge
Well-Known Member
Running with battery is fine - BUT I always turn it off when leaving boat as if not shore power fail = flat batteries
vas
Well-Known Member
95% of fridge issues is juice, thermostat or controller... (from cheap to 100+ quid for the latter)
I run my two 80lt fridges on 24V only, I've even removed the vertifrigo 230-24 multi input 24V output transformer from the one (was separate on mine!). Wont have any issues on 12V alone.
did you check you do get decent voltage on the danfoss control board as recommended above?
AH just remembered!!!! do a final test, unplug the tiny red/black (ok one will do) cables that are on the controller and drive the fan.
My fan died and the fridge wouldn't start no mater what. As soon as I disconnected (by accident!) the fan, fridge started...
Can you take a pic of the controller on your fridge?
and do study: http://www.veco-na.com/images/So_what_makes_you_think_your_compressor_is_bad.pdf
easy to do a test cable and see with a led bulb the error message you get, then you know if you replace fridge/controller/whatnot.
V.
I run my two 80lt fridges on 24V only, I've even removed the vertifrigo 230-24 multi input 24V output transformer from the one (was separate on mine!). Wont have any issues on 12V alone.
did you check you do get decent voltage on the danfoss control board as recommended above?
AH just remembered!!!! do a final test, unplug the tiny red/black (ok one will do) cables that are on the controller and drive the fan.
My fan died and the fridge wouldn't start no mater what. As soon as I disconnected (by accident!) the fan, fridge started...
Can you take a pic of the controller on your fridge?
and do study: http://www.veco-na.com/images/So_what_makes_you_think_your_compressor_is_bad.pdf
easy to do a test cable and see with a led bulb the error message you get, then you know if you replace fridge/controller/whatnot.
V.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Do you mean that they have a DC motor (12V on your boat IIRC, but the principle still stands if it were 24V), and also a built-in transformer to run them on AC? If so, on a boat that sounds like a weird and useless complication, imho.
All my Frigonautica fridge compressors are DC 24V only, and I can't for the life of me see any reason for fitting a transformer and run them on AC - at any time, either docked, anchored or cruising.
If anything, it's the opposite that might make sense (only because this allows you to use domestic fridges, which are less expensive than dedicated nautical ones): fridges with AC compressor, that are kept running through inverter whenever AC is not available, i.e. while cruising or anchored with no genset running.
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petem
Well-Known Member
Vas, I'm not on board so can't do any checks at the moment. What I can tell you is that when the fridge was powered on (and not working) the compressor was getting very hot, hence our prognosis that it's seized.
petem
Well-Known Member
Old Engel fridge has a 12v/240v automatic change over built in.
New Waeco fridges are 12/24v only and you need a separate (£80) transformer if you want to run from either 12v or 240v with automatic changeover capability.
petem
Well-Known Member
To be honest, the 16 year old fridge is looking a bit tired, the plastic compartments have seen better days, it's noisy and uses twice the power of the latest generation.
So I won't be too sad if it's terminal.
So I won't be too sad if it's terminal.
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Aha, I see. A clear cut case of no brainer £80 saving, if I've ever seen one! :encouragement:
vas
Well-Known Member
OK, that's a decent prognosis
I'm with MM, don't bother spending the extra for the 240V changeover, pointless imho unless you plan to turn the targa into an immobile airbnb always plugged in shorepower
V.
petem
Well-Known Member
Also, the breaker for the fridge is shared with the breaker for the 240v sockets which I don't particularly like.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
What Pete means is you have to pay extra for a 12/240 fridge.
Was the same with our webasto galley fridge.
Pete we fitted just a 12v version because the 240v add on was £350+vat.
It’s 100% fine and I’d go with a 12v only fridge
Was the same with our webasto galley fridge.
Pete we fitted just a 12v version because the 240v add on was £350+vat.
It’s 100% fine and I’d go with a 12v only fridge
vas
Well-Known Member
Jez, is Seralia 12V?
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Yes she is
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Actually V, even in that case, I'd rather leave the fridge running on DC.
Just think about it: while docked, typically you keep the battery charger on 24/7, so having a bit of current constantly drawn from the batteries is a non-issue. And if the fridge has a DC motor, eventually it needs DC to run anyway.
So, adding an AC/DC step down converter is just another bit of kit added that can go wrong, without any added value...
