electronics - but what?

[Sandy]

Just to add... I considered WiFi/Bluetooth connected kit, but quickly discounted it as I considered there was a higher risk of failure.

 

[Birdseye]

For me the attraction of wireless is the ability to easily connect kit of different makes. My last boat had an MFD from B&G, Raymarine ST instruments, simrad / robertson pilot and I cant remember the ais maker. It was a nightmare to get talking to each other and needed a multiplexer because the Raymarine was the original ST, the pilot was 0183, the radar was ethernet, and the ais was 2000.

MInd you the B&G wifi gadget was a waste of time - they had gelded its functionality because they were worried about the skippers 10 year old in one of the cabins taking over the pilot contol.

 

[Stemar]

they had gelded its functionality because they were worried about the skippers 10 year old in one of the cabins taking over the pilot contol.

While I'd be swearing (again!), I do have some sympathy for that point of view.

 

[Koeketiene]

MInd you the B&G wifi gadget was a waste of time - they had gelded its functionality because they were worried about the skippers 10 year old in one of the cabins taking over the pilot contol.

I have a B&G WiFi enabled plotter - the only thing you can't do over WiFi is control the autopilot.
When you're on watch would you want to change the course you're steering from his/her bunk without telling you?
Not an issue for me as I sail singlehanded most of the time, but it seems like just common sense to me.

 

[dankilb]

For me the attraction of wireless is the ability to easily connect kit of different makes. My last boat had an MFD from B&G, Raymarine ST instruments, simrad / robertson pilot and I cant remember the ais maker. It was a nightmare to get talking to each other and needed a multiplexer because the Raymarine was the original ST, the pilot was 0183, the radar was ethernet, and the ais was 2000.

MInd you the B&G wifi gadget was a waste of time - they had gelded its functionality because they were worried about the skippers 10 year old in one of the cabins taking over the pilot contol.

AFAIK there isn’t an interface currently that allows wireless connection between makes of marine instrument. Any connections - e.g between a Raymarine wireless radome or a NASA wireless masthead wind - would still need to go through NMEA 2k backbone to sync with, say, a B&G plotter (and even then, presumably the radar would only connect wirelessly with a Raymarine plotter?).

It is typically only the plotter that outputs wireless capability to other devices, in the form of wifi and/or Bluetooth to their dedicated apps, or occasionally via third party gadgets/software that allow the data to be read by other devices (typically either PC, phone/tablet, RasberryPi, etc. - not other marine instruments).

Maybe I’ve got it wrong and have only got hands on knowledge of the Garmin bits - the boat previously having had minimal NMEA 0184 and early 2000s Furuno plotter/radome (still decent kit, too). Or perhaps there are complex possibilities at vanguard of technology that I’m unfamiliar with? But I don’t think what you seek (re: wireless between different makes of marine electronics) is realistic.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You can have all the wireless comms you like but they all need a reliable power supply ie a wire or two connected to the ships power supply so whilst you are at it why not run a comms cable at the same time.
A reliable power supply in my book doesn't mea a couple of AA batteries or a poxy little photovoltaic window.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

4 years and counting with my Triton2 with wireless wind and Bluetooth N2K to an iPad. TP22/32 is networked and uses wind and heading from the boat. Good enough for 1600nm trip to the Med and many thousands more miles since.

You can pay as much as you want but there are cost effective ways to do it also. The only thing I don't have is Radar and I'm fine with that. For shipping AIS is enough and for land I can stand off until the viz is good.

 

[Elessar]

FYI: there are robust, waterproof tablets on the market.
Also, my boat is tiller steered - so, no pedestal to mount the plotter.
Mounting it under the sprayhood or on the bulkhead would mean the plotter would be too far away from the tiller to be of any use to me.

I’d fit one on each bulkhead either side of the companionway on a tiller steered yacht or on a smaller one have it on a swinging bracket to swing out of the companionway. A dim, waterproof but non buoyant tablet that goes flat is a suboptimal solution.

 

[SV-Apres]

if you are thinking about a tablet the Samsung Galaxy Active pro (~$600) is waterproof and good in sunlight (not fully sunlight readable but quite bright). I just bought a fully waterproof and Sunlight readable 15.6" monitor (~$630) that will go at my helm and connect to my Raspberry Pi at the Nav station. If you go down the DIY route there is a lot of savings to be had, but you need to be quite electronics savvy.

 

[Koeketiene]

I’d fit one on each bulkhead either side of the companionway on a tiller steered yacht or on a smaller one have it on a swinging bracket to swing out of the companionway. A dim, waterproof but non buoyant tablet that goes flat is a suboptimal solution.

1. Why would a tablet need to be buoyant?
2. I carry two. So, when I get a low battery alarm, I use the other one whilst the first one recharges.
3. Two tablets are (a lot) cheaper than two plotters.
4. Another reason to have the plotter down below is this: I plan my passage on a paper chart, then I transfer my route/waypoints to the plotter which is the hub on my network (linked to all instruments on deck and the autopilot).
It's a lot more comfortable to do this from the chart table down below than it would be to have to do this in the cockpit (regardless of the weather).

 

[Elessar]

1. Why would a tablet need to be buoyant?
2. I carry two. So, when I get a low battery alarm, I use the other one whilst the first one recharges.
3. Two tablets are (a lot) cheaper than two plotters.
4. Another reason to have the plotter down below is this: I plan my passage on a paper chart, then I transfer my route/waypoints to the plotter which is the hub on my network (linked to all instruments on deck and the autopilot).
It's a lot more comfortable to do this from the chart table down below than it would be to have to do this in the cockpit (regardless of the weather).

You have two tablets to mitigate a sub optimal solution.

Having a purpose built plotter inside the boat is a waste. It belongs in view of the helmsman. The benefits for pilotage in particular are immense. The benefits of AIS in poor vis is immense. And if you have a radar all that x10.

The tablet is better for transferring routes than the plotter as you can place it on the chart rather than poking a thing on the wall. You can quickly type in route and waypoint names.

And even if you still rely on the anachronism that is a chart table, you can take the chart and the tablet to the dining table to do the transfer - because the dining table is bigger and better. Yes you can do that if you plotter is inside but you used the transfer as a reason for the plotter being inside. It isn’t a reason.

 

[Koeketiene]

You have two tablets to mitigate a sub optimal solution.

Having a purpose built plotter inside the boat is a waste. It belongs in view of the helmsman. The benefits for pilotage in particular are immense. The benefits of AIS in poor vis is immense. And if you have a radar all that x10.

The tablet is better for transferring routes than the plotter as you can place it on the chart rather than poking a thing on the wall. You can quickly type in route and waypoint names.

And even if you still rely on the anachronism that is a chart table, you can take the chart and the tablet to the dining table to do the transfer - because the dining table is bigger and better. Yes you can do that if you plotter is inside but you used the transfer as a reason for the plotter being inside. It isn’t a reason.

FYI: I can 'see' AIS targets on my tablet.
It's a mirror image of what's shown on the plotter at the chart table.

FWIW: I can see this going nowhere fast.
All I can add is that my current set-up suits me (and my finances) just fine.
Even if I had the dosh to splash plotters all over the boat, I would not have it any other way.

If your set-up works for you, all the better for you.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[dankilb]

While I agree with what Elessar says - in our setup the 9" main plotter is on the bulkhead. This isn't really very viewable for the helmsman - although, with the high res, it's not bad at all. But my logic is that the boat is rarely being helmed by a navigator! Either the autopilot is on (and I'm in the cockpit, near the plotter!) or someone else is helming and I'm telling them where to go! ?

At our helm itself, Koeketiene's tablet suggestion takes over (I'd use my phone or the tablet on ActiveCaptain or Navionics if, say, navigating myself into a particularly challenging close-quarters situation).

 

[sailingmartin]

I have had boats with: a) no electronics at all, just log and depth b) wireless instruments (TacTick) c) Chaplotter at helm, d) chartplotter at chart table. What I found in all cases was that I actually used were various handheld devices most of the time (iphone and iPads in my case). They are just so much easier and convenient to use.

So on my latest boat where I actually had a choice I have:
Raymarine EV200 Autopilot (plus backup with original Autohelm), Raymarine depth and wind, Em-Trak AIS, and an Actisense NMEA 2000 wifi gateway to get it all talking and displaying speed, depth, wind, AIS etc to a couple of IPads and iPhones, plus those of anybody else on board. Apps display both vector and raster charts plus all the usual functions of a chartplotter with multiple backups. I also have a Furuno wireless radar - again is fine for my main use of radar (picking up squalls) and cost under £1,000 unlike other brands. This displays on an ipad app and overlays on a Vector chart through TZIBoat.

All worked seamlessly on a 4,000-mile trip to Portugal/Spain and back with multiple stops - and so far haven’t managed to drop the ipad over the side. I can also use the ipad for an anchor alarm that I can leave on the boat while having a copy with me on my phone, writing posts to this forum and watching films, which most fixed chartplotters can’t manage yet. In bright sunshine I move to the shade of the sprayhood. I sail both single-handed (with dog) and with crew.

As someone else said, it’s horses for courses and this works for me - and is a lot cheaper.

 

[requiem]

Like sailingmartin I too have found myself on various boats with varying amounts of instrumentation. Nearly always I bring phone or tablet for navigation, and usually reach for my phone for anything a quick glance at the plotter can't resolve. AIS portrayal on plotters, at least in my experience, is fairly rudimentary compared to phone or tablet. The phone is faster, has greater resolution, and will also have fully up-to-date charts.

Thus, the actual boat hardware doesn't matter too much beyond the compatibility question. With a B&G setup that includes wifi, my devices can talk with the boat. With Raymarine you are limited to their proprietary app, or installing an additional device to translate to standard NMEA. Garmin, I don't have experience with. So long as the helm plotter can display radar I'm pretty happy. I've heard good things about Furuno radars and Raymarine autopilots.

My preference is to plan routes on laptop or ipad from a more comfortable location. However, I have observed the combination of laptop and phone often beats tablet, as it's easier to apply chart corrections and notices to mariners on a laptop, and a phone is often more convenient to hand. A large tablet does make it easier when reviewing plans with crew, as you can place it flat on the table and people can view from every side.

 

[Supertramp]

I have had boats with: a) no electronics at all, just log and depth b) wireless instruments (TacTick) c) Chaplotter at helm, d) chartplotter at chart table. What I found in all cases was that I actually used were various handheld devices most of the time (iphone and iPads in my case). They are just so much easier and convenient to use.

So on my latest boat where I actually had a choice I have:
Raymarine EV200 Autopilot (plus backup with original Autohelm), Raymarine depth and wind, Em-Trak AIS, and an Actisense NMEA 2000 wifi gateway to get it all talking and displaying speed, depth, wind, AIS etc to a couple of IPads and iPhones, plus those of anybody else on board. Apps display both vector and raster charts plus all the usual functions of a chartplotter with multiple backups. I also have a Furuno wireless radar - again is fine for my main use of radar (picking up squalls) and cost under £1,000 unlike other brands. This displays on an ipad app and overlays on a Vector chart through TZIBoat.

All worked seamlessly on a 4,000-mile trip to Portugal/Spain and back with multiple stops - and so far haven’t managed to drop the ipad over the side. I can also use the ipad for an anchor alarm that I can leave on the boat while having a copy with me on my phone, writing posts to this forum and watching films, which most fixed chartplotters can’t manage yet. In bright sunshine I move to the shade of the sprayhood. I sail both single-handed (with dog) and with crew.

As someone else said, it’s horses for courses and this works for me - and is a lot cheaper.

Agree with this. Sailing singlehanded I find the ability to instantly engage a good autopilot is the single most valuable item. Depthsounder and speed next. Navionics is remarkably good. Ability to get GPS position is useful.

I have witnessed some chaotic excitement with people entering way points, trying to identify buoys and generally becoming immersed in technology when a glance at the (paper) chart, some prepared headings and bearings and a good look around outside provided a safe and simple passage.

I think the risk with all electronics is that you can start looking to them first rather than watching the sea.

In case anyone thinks I'm still tarring ropes etc. I do hope to fit AIS but it will be as freestanding as I can make it with a WiFi link to my Navionics tablet.

So start with the basic essentials and add items as their need becomes apparent.

 

[Elessar]

.

I think the risk with all electronics is that you can start looking to them first rather than watching the sea.

So true. I always go out a couple of times a year with it all off so I don’t forget how.

But the ability to hit track and in an instant steer to a waypoint whilst allowing for the tidal set for example is great. But if you don’t know the basics (ie how to navigate on paper) then you will never understand, for example, the difference between and limitations of auto and track.

For me paper is my secondary navigation method and charts only come out of the drawer for
1 the two days a year I leave the plotter off
2 holiday dreaming
3 longer passages where there is a change of tidal flow en route. In this instance a plot on paper and using auto on the pilot (not track) saves you miles.

At all other times they gather dust.

 

[Koeketiene]

I have witnessed some chaotic excitement with people entering way points, trying to identify buoys and generally becoming immersed in technology when a glance at the (paper) chart, some prepared headings and bearings and a good look around outside provided a safe and simple passage.

I think the risk with all electronics is that you can start looking to them first rather than watching the sea.

A sight all to common these days.
I've encountered plenty of boats where the helmsman has gone into 'Playstation mode' - engrossed in his electronics and utterly oblivious to his immediate surroundings.

 

[laika]

For me the attraction of wireless is the ability to easily connect kit of different makes.

AFAIK there isn’t an interface currently that allows wireless connection between makes of marine instrument.

Per my post #11, I believe danklib and I concur on this one. There's a defacto (non-) standard that's been adopted by most wifi applications (OpenCPN, Navionics, iNavX etc.) but while some plotters will transmit data in that format (e.g. Navico plotters via their GoFree access point thingy), I'm not aware of plotters from the mainstream manufacturers *receiving* data in that way, nor of instruments which transmit their data like that (ie nmea-0183-over-IPv4-over-802.11 as opposed to proprietary radio formats).

 

[Koeketiene]

Per my post #11, I believe danklib and I concur on this one. There's a defacto (non-) standard that's been adopted by most wifi applications (OpenCPN, Navionics, iNavX etc.) but while some plotters will transmit data in that format (e.g. Navico plotters via their GoFree access point thingy), I'm not aware of plotters from the mainstream manufacturers *receiving* data in that way, nor of instruments which transmit their data like that (ie nmea-0183-over-IPv4-over-802.11 as opposed to proprietary radio formats).

I have a B&G Zeus T8 plotter and a GoFree WiFi module.
My plotter can not receive data over WiFi.
Which is why the suggestion in #31 of plotting waypoints/routes on a tablet and uploading them to the plotter did not make sense to me.

I am far from up to date on the latest developments in the field of yottie electronics, AFAIK there's no model around that would allow you to do that.
More than happy to be proved wrong.