Electrical question

[Andrew_B]

In summer last year I installed an Air Marine X wind generator on my Hunter 34.
As per the installation instructions I wired it through an amp meter and directly onto one of the batteries.
It works great!
The only trouble is I have 2 battery banks.With the battery switch on 'Both' all the batteries are linked and charged.
If only one bank is selected then of course only the battery the Air Marine is connected to is charged.
If I link the Air Marine to both banks then I will not be able to isolate one bank from the other as they will be joined through the generator.
If I wire the Air Marine through the battery switch then again I will have to select 'Both' to charge both battery banks.
Ideally I would like both banks to be charging while only 1 is selected.

Is there such a thing as a one way voltage device I could wire between the Air Marine and the 2nd battery bank so it gets a charge one way but not the other or should I be doing something else?

Many thanks for and help.

 

[Strathglass]

Yes
Andrew just use a splitter as used in for alternators. The one you require is the one which can charge two batteries from one alternator.

The positive output from the wind generator goes to the input of the splitter and each of the outputs from the splitter go to the positive of each battery. The negative line from the generator remains in its present position to the common neg side of the batteries.

You will get some voltage loss which you could minimise by using better diodes but a normal diode splitter would be simple to obtain and would be very simple to install.

Iain

 

[pvb]

Nearly right...

Unfortunately, just putting a diode splitter in the circuit wouldn't work, as the internal regulator in the Air Marine needs to be able to sense the battery voltage. You can achieve this by just using one leg of the splitter - so the output from the Air Marine goes directly to the main domestic battery bank, and also to the input of the splitter. The output of the splitter goes to the engine starting battery. The engine battery will get slightly less voltage, but enough to keep it topped up.

 

[colvic]

What you need is a split diode so that the charge coming in one side then goes to two or three seperate batteries or banks of batteries which remain independant of each other due to the nature of the diode.

These diodes are common place and come in different ratings based on the current supplied by the charging device. £35 about for one rated at 75 amps.

There is one problem though, there is a voltage drop across these devices of about 1 volt, which in your case would inrease the time to charge the batteries, but being a wind generator and running all the time that shouldn't be a problem.

Have used a winf gen with an alternator using a split diode and 3 way selector switch. Worked very well running fridge 24 hrs and living on board.

Phil

 

[Strathglass]

Re: Nearly right...

It really depends on where Andrew connects the sensing line from the generator to.
Would there not be possible to connect the splitter as I have sugested and connect the sensing line from the generator to one of the batteries? Then both batteries would receive an equal charge and the diode drop would be overcome on both batteries.

Iain

 

[bedouin]

Re: Nearly right...

If the wind generator really is machine sensing rather than battery sensing (which seems a bit strange) then there are a couple of alternative options.

Firstly there is a product on the market called the "X-Split" which claims to have near-zero drop out.

Secondly you could use a voltage-sensing relay to parallel up the batteries once the voltage gets over say 13V

 

[snowleopard]

2 types of splitter

the normal type has a substantial voltage drop and is only of use with a remote-sensing regulator which measures voltage going into the battery rather than out of the generator. the air marine can't do this. there is a type of diode with negligible voltage drop which would dop the job you require.
An alternative is to wire the batteries as a single bank. nigel calder recommends this on the basis that dischanging one big bank by 25% every day as opposed to each half by 50% every other day produces much less damage. look at a chart of battery life (number of cycles) v depth of discharge & you will find frequent shallow discharge is far less damaging.

 

[halcyon]

There is a relay system produced by Kdd powercentre since the late 1970's.
This fits between to input terminals 1 and 2 and earth.
This would allow the wind generator to charge bank one, then link bank 2 at preset voltage, droping out if charge ceases.
Also if bank 1 selected with engine running it would but bank 2 on charge, or bank 1 if running from bank 2, system drops out if charging ceases.
Has vertually zero volt drop, and is user adustable to suit installation.

Brian

 

[jimboaw]

Cheap as Chips

Solve the problem by buying a 2nd Air 403 Marine for $450 from Sun Electronics Miami.Fl. Not the X model but by the time you have fa*t ars*d about with splitting charge diodes etc etc etc, a much more cost effective solution.

 

[vyv_cox]

Look at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sunware.de/US/Products/Regulators/Regulators.htm>http://www.sunware.de/US/Products/Regulators/Regulators.htm</A> I have one of these units to distribute the output of a solar panel to two battery banks. Works very well and was surprisingly cheap to buy.

 

[Strathglass]

Vyv,
They look very good and surprisingly low cost.

I am not sure about about using a pulse width load circuit on a generator. Certainly great on a solar panel but may not be compatable with a generator (I may be wrong of course).

 

[Strathglass]

Andrew

I had a look at your generator on some US web sites, very impressive.
From the graphs it appears that the maximum output current can be in excess of 40 Amps but probably less than 50 Amps. That being the case any splitting device must be capable of handling at least that current. A 70 Amp device would be quite compatable.
It states in the adverts that the battery voltage is sensed to control the charge rate. Is there a separate positive wire which goes direct to the battery an addition to the heavy wire which you run through your ammeter?
If there is this will allow you to automatically compensate for diode loss.
If you were to connect a splitter as I have previously posted then a 70 Amp one generator /two batteries is the correct one (about £30).
It is certainly the case that if batteries will last longer if discharged less but I am assuming that in some instances you do not want to leave the battery switch in the 'both' position for various reasons.
I am also assuming that you would like all the batteries to receive a charge from the wind generator even when the master battery switch is at off and you are not on board.
As you will be aware there is no problem of overcharging the batteries when using that generator so it is quite feasable to leave it on all the time.

Iain

 

[vyv_cox]

Knowledge overload!

Sorry, my electrical knowledge was overwhelmed seven words into your second sentence. Maybe a call to Fox would help but as far as I remember the instructions that came with my unit referred to several different sources of power and I think that one was a wind generator.

 

[JEG]

I have installed a couple of 403s - they did not have a separate sensing wire.

 

[Strathglass]

Re: Knowledge overload!

You are probably right Vyv, they may be usable with some wind generators. I couldn't find any reference to this use on their web site.

Let me try and explain what I think I was was trying to say in simpler terms.

The Fox devices control the mean output electronically by switching the output off and on at fairly high speed. By controlling the ratio of the 'on' and 'off' times the mean output current can be varied. For example if the on and off times were equal then half the current would be available.

This is fine and a very acceptable way of controlling the output power from a static device like a solar panel which does not mind running with the output disconnected.

Andrews generator is a fairly advanced product which has a built in regulator. This may not like having another device connected between it's output and the batteries. You may end up with the two regulators conflicting with each other.

I do like the Fox device and think it offers very good value.

Regards Iain

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Knowledge overload!

Thanks for the explanation. I can confirm the high speed switching - it plays havoc with my LW and MW radio reception. Local stations are OK but I have big problems with Radios 4 and 5 in Holland, R4 in particular being a loud hum. I solve it by putting a sheet of material over the solar panel but this is not the ideal solution.

 

[Paulka]

Caution !

As far as I could see, the AirX generator is rated at up to 400W, that's over 30 A at 12 V.
The most powerfull Fox regulator is rated at 16 A. would thus be at high risk of overload.

And, as already stated, the AirX seems to include a very sophisticated regulator, which could be harmed if connected to an additional regulator.

happy new year to all.

Paul

 

[pvb]

You\'re right to caution...

The Fox units recommended are only rated at 260watts, whereas the Air Marine is rated at 400watts.

 

[richardandtracy]

Wind Powered Fridge

Where you running a fridge just on wind and no supplementary generation? If so, that was very impressive. What make? Any mods to improve efficiency? My calcs suggest that the power requirement is too high to contemplate by a factor of about 2 given normal weather. I would like to hear I'm wrong.

Regards

Richard

 

[colvic]

Re: Wind Powered Fridge

No, I wasn't just using wind power and and to give it up because of problems with the mounting. However, it did keep everything running for several weeks one Spring in the UK.

Not sure that it was working, I once connected a 50watt bulb across the supply and it blew it in under five seconds so had to be putting out more than 5amps, which should run any fridge for at least two hours.

The fridge is a Waeco Coolmatic, 12v compressor with freezer box. We are in the Med and it keeps everything cool/cold enough, especially the beers.

Phil