Electric winches - sobering reading

Some years back there was a report from the caribbean where someone was winched up a mast with an electric self tailing. It all went horribly wrong with the first operator who lost body parts. 2nd person interviened and also ended up losing body parts. Possibly a 3rd got injured ? Can't remember.
rescuer boarded and said it looked like an abbotoir on board with blood and body parts everywhere.
Lewmar heard about the incident and sent a team to see what went wrong. Lewmar released a statement to say you should never use a self tailer to winch up a person up a mast and never ever use an electric one !
One of the dangers was getting a riding turn which then rips the bailing arm off followed by the rope rapidly letting go.
The article is online but i don't know where.
 
Nearly 50 years ago I almost had this accident on a cargo ship. Winding a cargo runner(wire rope) onto a large deck winch my gloved hand got snagged by a bit of wire protruding from the runner and was pulled towards the winch drum. It happened in an instant and I got away with it because there was an emergency stop button on the winch body which I hit with my free hand. I would regard emergency stops as essential to any bits of machinery like winches.
 
wonkywinch said:
The problem is that electric winches are low voltage, high current. The Harken 40s on my boat draw 170A. Difficult to find a simple push button emergency stop rated for that current.
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there are various options - via a contactor/relay, using the same sort of fuse/breaker that is used to protect the wiring anyway (as per your post 22) or just adding a battery isolator type switch - ideal might be a big easy to press red button but just a switch would be a massive start.
 
Mark-1 said:
Once his hand was trapped several turns would need to be cut. Plus the painter which seems to have been tangled in as well. Not sure you'd get through that lot in time, and that assumes he could get it out and open it while his hand and arm were being agonisingly pulverised.

Perhaps the other people on the boat could have run down and got a knife but they were probably more focused on turning the electric off which sounds non trivial.

Horrific.
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Surely you just cut the loaded line?
 
mjcoon said:
Just ensure it is fail-safe...
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That would be the tough bit, if electrical contacts weld together that would override any mechanical fail safe design.
Due to the emergency stop big red/yellow mushroom plunger may break the contactor/rely supply it wouldn't separate the welded contacts within the relay/contactor.
 
billskip said:
That would be the tough bit, if electrical contacts weld together that would override any mechanical fail safe design.
Due to the emergency stop big red/yellow mushroom plunger may break the contactor/rely supply it wouldn't separate the welded contacts within the relay/contactor.
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It goes in the main supply, not the relay feed. Once there’s no longer any volts, at least it stops.
 
I've used a few of these. Often, the operating switches are similar to the anchor windlass up/ down controls. Obviously I've got no idea what type they have, but the 'expensive' common ones, when opened, reveay very cheap and nasty metal contacts that might have cost as much as 4p.

Scary were the hydraulic winches fitted to a Sunreef 74 catamaran. Enormously powerful.
 
capnsensible said:
I've used a few of these. Often, the operating switches are similar to the anchor windlass up/ down controls. Obviously I've got no idea what type they have, but the 'expensive' common ones, when opened, reveay very cheap and nasty metal contacts that might have cost as much as 4p.

Scary were the hydraulic winches fitted to a Sunreef 74 catamaran. Enormously powerful.
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I’ve only really used them on a 50 ft that I suspect you know yourself. Foot switches, and a serious safety lecture from Mike, the owner. Great for gear handling on larger boats, but they dissociate you from the loads involved. There are loads nearly as large on ours, but as generating them makes the veins in your teeth stand out, at least you’re fully aware.
 
Rappey said:
Some years back there was a report from the caribbean where someone was winched up a mast with an electric self tailing. It all went horribly wrong with the first operator who lost body parts. 2nd person interviened and also ended up losing body parts. Possibly a 3rd got injured ? Can't remember.
rescuer boarded and said it looked like an abbotoir on board with blood and body parts everywhere.
Lewmar heard about the incident and sent a team to see what went wrong. Lewmar released a statement to say you should never use a self tailer to winch up a person up a mast and never ever use an electric one !
One of the dangers was getting a riding turn which then rips the bailing arm off followed by the rope rapidly letting go.
The article is online but i don't know where.
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Similar here? But only 1 serious casualty. Slovenia 2009.

Harken electric winches, deck mounted controls.
MAIB had a small involvement.

Shipman Cup marred by accident - Yachting World
 
I don't let the crew near the electric central winch. And I think having self tailing kinds are probably safer. You don't have your hands holding onto tails of rope.
 
Rappey said:
Some years back there was a report from the caribbean where someone was winched up a mast with an electric self tailing. It all went horribly wrong with the first operator who lost body parts. 2nd person interviened and also ended up losing body parts. Possibly a 3rd got injured ? Can't remember.
rescuer boarded and said it looked like an abbotoir on board with blood and body parts everywhere.
Lewmar heard about the incident and sent a team to see what went wrong. Lewmar released a statement to say you should never use a self tailer to winch up a person up a mast and never ever use an electric one !
One of the dangers was getting a riding turn which then rips the bailing arm off followed by the rope rapidly letting go.
The article is online but i don't know where.
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I remember reading that, sounded absolutely awful, found the text below.

I’ve spent a few days on a big boat with electric and hydraulic everything, not something I’d ever want on our boat. I’ve seen halyards and in one case a furler broken (I know a massive electric sheet winch to wind a headsail in…he wouldn’t listen to my concerns) snapped by careless use of these systems.

When you’re winding by hand you know instantly when somethings wrong.

Also when lounging in the cockpit in the evening, even with the covers over the switches you could still operate them with say your elbow accidentally.

Past Major Accident (Antigua, 2011)
A separate, highly publicized accident occurred in Antigua in 2011 involving a Lewmar electric self-tailing winch, resulting in multiple severe injuries.
  • Incident Description: A woman was using the electric winch to hoist her husband up the mast when her hand became caught. The winch became stuck in the "on" position. In her attempt to free herself, she lost a hand and part of an arm. A rescuer who tried to intervene also became entangled and lost seven fingers.
  • Outcome: The manufacturer, Lewmar, issued a safety notice following the event, emphasizing the importance of safe operation and explicitly stating that self-tailers should not be used to winch people up a mast.
 
Mark-1 said:
Once his hand was trapped several turns would need to be cut. Plus the painter which seems to have been tangled in as well. Not sure you'd get through that lot in time, and that assumes he could get it out and open it while his hand and arm were being agonisingly pulverised. Edit to strike out mindless nonsense. Yes, a knife would have fixed it fast, sorry.
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I don't think you wrote "mindless nonsense" there, I think you're absolutely right. I don't believe anyone trapped by a still-turning winch would have time to deploy a knife and use it. Carry a knife if you want, but don't assume it's going to save you, certainly not from machinery.
 
penberth3 said:
I don't think you wrote "mindless nonsense" there, I think you're absolutely right. I don't believe anyone trapped by a still-turning winch would have time to deploy a knife and use it. Carry a knife if you want, but don't assume it's going to save you, certainly not from machinery.
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Someone else wields the knife in those situations. If you’re solo, I don’t know. Or don’t want to say.
 
penberth3 said:
I don't think you wrote "mindless nonsense" there, I think you're absolutely right. I don't believe anyone trapped by a still-turning winch would have time to deploy a knife and use it. Carry a knife if you want, but don't assume it's going to save you, certainly not from machinery.
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Yes, I shouldn't have struck out the last bit but the fact remains the cutting would be on the line being pulled not the line around the drum, so once a knife was deployed it would very effective and fast.

But yeah, still a near impossible task for the victim to get a knife out and use it. Other people on board could, of course, but how far away were they? I started to carry a knife this year, but my first instinct would be to run and flick the power off below. (I'm sure I wouldn't act fast enough, maybe others would.)
 
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