East coast to the Solent - Summer trip

[gilesfordcrush]

Thank you for all the replies. There is some really good information, much appreciated. Certainly getting to Dover on day1 would make a difference.

Clearly two weeks would be a much better allocation of time, and give much better flexibility. I am questioning my motivation for this trip, and my stated desire to get to the Solent. I think the main enthusiasm is to have some good long sails, with good navigation challenges and gaining experience. I'd like to escape the muddy waters of the East coast, and getting to the Solent looms in my mind as a worthy maritime destination.

I am mindful of my abilities, and those of my crew. I am also aware that I do not have AIS, or a masthead tri-colour. Whilst I am keen to do more night sailing, I feel that I want more miles under my belt, more experience. Longer, overnight passages may have to wait for next year, and the addition of AIS. I have been sailing for two and a half years, with about 2,300Nm sailed – almost all single or short handed.

I am planning a summer trip with the family, heading to the Stour, Orwell, Deben etc. Shorter passages and more time in each place. The Solent trip is more of something I want to achieve. Leaving the boat there isn’t really what I’m aiming for, but is certainly more likely next year.

Perhaps I should be looking at Calais or Boulogne as alternatives, and not the Solent, although these are not high on my list of destinations.

The boat lives at North Fambridge, which is part of the Yacht Havens group. I can therefore get (I think) 14 nights free berthing at Lymington, which makes leaving the boat there more palatable.

Thank you again for all the thoughts.

 

[Rafiki]

Really? I never am when I pass those parts. What is it that I don’t know?

Totally agree with your advice though, and the OP will want more time if he’s not to feel he needs a holiday afterwards. I guess there’s always the option of taking a train home and enjoying four weekends’ cruising back in the summer.

As far as I recall you have to inform Dover Port traffic control of your intention to pass Dover port and they require you to be 3 miles off ( or it maybe 2 I can't actually recall). I've heard them instructing passing yachts to that effect.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I've only done that trip a few times, but have been pretty lucky in that most times we had either fair or little wind and never actually had to go close-hauled, and always did it non-stop. Given that sort of weather I'd seriously suggest either doing it in one go or maybe just stopping at or before Dover if you're going to miss the Dungeness tidal gate. Sure, you could be tucked up in bed while the tide goes the other way, but one of you could be in bed and still make some progress towards your actual holiday.

If you do it that way you get two benefits, firstly that none of the places you've proposed stopping at compare with the ones that you would now have time for in The Solent, and secondly that you and your mate have just upped your experience level by a couple of notches.

And definitely take the extra two days off work anyway.

 

[Bru]

Bear in mind that the free nights at Lymington is subject to berths being available and during the peak season they are often fully booked at weekends

Two years ago we went there to take advantage of the freebie and were told from the off that we'd have to clear out on the Friday (which was fair enough)

 

[Rafiki]

You only need to be one mile off, not three (per sailing directions repeated on the relevant Admiralty charts)

I'd also monitor Dover VTS from about 5 miles off to get a picture of the shipping movements - it's not that unusual for the ferries to use the Western entrance which could spring a surprise on the unsuspecting passing sailor

I've only sailed past Dover once, in the night heading East when the ferry traffic was light (and the bars were closed!) I should imagine it could get a bit interesting trying to dive between the near constant stream of inbound and outbound ferries during the busy periods

I'm sure you're right about how far off Dover you need to be - I was trying to recall from my reading it two year's ago. I will seriously look at passing Dover close in next year. Maybe I could even pop in the Eastern entrance and out of the west entrance under motor - at least I could see the ferries that way and they could see me!

 

[BelleSerene]

As far as I recall you have to inform Dover Port traffic control of your intention to pass Dover port and they require you to be 3 miles off ( or it maybe 2 I can't actually recall). I've heard them instructing passing yachts to that effect.

I’d have wagered they had no such authority, but I just had a look and I was wrong.

Dover Harbour Consolidation Act 1954 (S39) puts the jurisdiction of the harbour master out to 400 yards seaward of the harbour, and AFAICT the subsequent Acts don’t change that. (Not a mile or three miles though.)

There’s no General Direction (ie standing order) excluding anyone from that zone. However, the harbour master can issue Special Directions (ie from time to time, to you and me) within the area of his jurisdiction. So if he wants you to stay 400m out, he can require you to.

Frankly I’d either aim a safe distance off from around the cliffs, not call him (you’re under no obligation to unless you’re heading inbound, and he’s hardly likely to raise you on the radio) and sail past - or call at 2nm off for the usual permission to enter, aim for the entrance as he will be expecting and then change your plan at the last minute, inform him and sail round, obviously following any advice about outbound or inbound vessels.

All that’s going to concern him anyway is unpredictability. If you’re tacking to and fro, cutting slowly across the approach channel or hovering around the entrance, he’ll care. Otherwise he won’t. I always douse or raise my sails between the harbour wall and the cliffs and set a clear course clear of the traffic so I’m clearly out of the way.

 

[Bru]

I'm sure you're right about how far off Dover you need to be - I was trying to recall from my reading it two year's ago. I will seriously look at passing Dover close in next year. Maybe I could even pop in the Eastern entrance and out of the west entrance under motor - at least I could see the ferries that way and they could see me!

I don't think you'd be very popular!

The statement in the sailing directions is that passing vessels "should" be at least one mile off which also happens to be the limit of the port authority. It's a "should" not a "must"

I have heard Dover Port Control call up a yacht passing close outside the breakwater which was causing some consternation with the ferry movements, I would certainly suggest being in contact with Port Control if passing less than a mile off (and I'm not sure but it might actually be a requirement but that would need checking)

P.S. for the OP ... ignore the oft repeated fallacy that leisure vessels have to use the Western entrance / exit at all times. Ancient history. Follow the vessel reporting procedures and Port Control will direct you to the relevant entrance

You must, and that is a must, call Port Control when you're two miles off and follow their instructions. You must also call them before departing the marina. You will get a very polite but pithy rollicking if you don't!

And if you're not monitoring the vhf, as one wafi wasn't a few years ago, you'll get a visit from the harbour patrol boat who'll let you know about it in fairly blunt terms

Play ball with Port Control and they'll treat you with the same courtesy and respect they afford to the OOW of a cross channel ferry

 

[BelleSerene]

Perhaps I should be looking at Calais or Boulogne as alternatives, and not the Solent, although these are not high on my list of destinations.

I wondered that when you asked. You could anchor or moor in Dover Harbour and spend a day in the very worthwhile Dover Castle, the largest in Britain, built in layers over two millennia of invasions and defences. Dover or Calais are a 4- or 5-hour crossing for you. You’ll have seen both in the time you’d otherwise have been drudging along the infinitely dull Kent and Sussex coast. Then with your draft you could get into Le Touquet (check tides!) which is apparently gorgeous (I regret I haven’t made it in there yet). By the time you’d otherwise be arriving in the Solent, you’ll be feeling you’ve seen some different places and actually had a holiday. Then double down on your victory by spending more time ashore on your return passage, and leave the Solent for when you can afford a larger block of time.

If you do go though, don’t miss Chichester Harbour: well worth a couple of days up different creeks before you get to the car park, I mean the Solent. Whatever you do, have fun!

 

[johnalison]

The first time I did this was in a Sadler 29. On that occasion we, myself and my inexperienced son, set off from Mersea Island at 6am. We had intended to stop at Dover but passed there in the early afternoon and couldn't be bothered to stop, so carried on to Brighton, arriving at 2.30am, with the wind rising F6 from the south. I have repeated this on occasion but more often stopped at Dover on the way, coming from Walton. Eastbourne is a bit out of the way and we have tended to stop there on the way home, but it is useful if you are late on the tide or the weather makes Beachy Head unappealing.

I would always radio Dover if passing - if nothing else, you don't want to be remembered on your return as that troublesome yacht that caused the fuss the previous week.

From Brighton I have always used the Looe Channel. With GPS, and in the sort of weather you will be out in, it no longer deserves the ill reputation that it used to hold, so long as you keep half an eye on where you are as you get there. It is quite a haul to the Solent from Brighton but on that first trip we left Brighton at dawn and got into Yarmouth around tea-time, tacking against a rising wind for the second half.

 

[BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo]

If an alternative itinerary is to be considered then one cruise which I have completed a couple of times from East Coast creeks is to work West to Eastbourne or Brighton, cross the channel to Fecamp, work my way back East along the French coast before crossing back to Ramsgate from either Bolougne or Calais.

Ten days or so should be sufficient.

 

[Bru]

You could anchor or moor in Dover Harbour

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Not at the moment you can't. Anchoring in the outer harbour is suspended due to the DWDR scheme and there's no word on whether it will be permitted when the new marina is complete (local feeling is it won't)​

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and spend a day in the very worthwhile Dover Castle,

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Definitely worth a visit

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Whatever you do, have fun!

100% agree

Agree about Chichester too. And the Beailieu River, Yarmouth, Cowes, etc. etc. I honestly can't see the point in thrashing down to the Solent to turn around and thrash back when there's lots to do and see down there (but that's just me, I don't really see the point in going out for a day sail and ending up back where I started either!)

PS. Vis the discussion about passing Dover - the harbour limit is definitely now 1 mile (can't be arsed to look up the chapter and verse legislation stuff, it just is. As indicated on all the charts etc.)

I don't think there is a compulsory requirement to report to Port Control when passing but I would strongly urge anybody passing at less than a mile to do so, the ferries do NOT hang about and you really don't want to get into a tangle with them. I really can't see that passing a mile off makes any appreciable difference to passage times compared to say half a mile or 400 yards

 

[gilesfordcrush]

I like the idea of adding to our combined experience level with an overnight passage, but would the addition of AIS and masthead tri-colour be essential for overnight passages? Surely they are a very good idea. Having had significant expenditure at the end of last year, including new rigging, the addition of further chunks of kit needs to be managed with the budget controller - my wife!

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

I like the idea of adding to our combined experience level with an overnight passage, but would the addition of AIS and masthead tri-colour be essential for overnight passages? Surely they are a very good idea. Having had significant expenditure at the end of last year, including new rigging, the addition of further chunks of kit needs to be managed with the budget controller - my wife!

Tri-colour, yes really. AIS wasn't around when I did it, and again, due to fair weather we were pretty much inshore and out of any shipping except for the Thames crossing. And doesn't she want you safely home?

 

[johnalison]

I don't see AIS as necessary for this coastal passage (and not obligatory elsewhere). It will really only come into play for crossing the Thames Estuary, and because of the nature of the channels there being other than straight even there it will only be of limited help.

The main advantage of a tricolour is that it uses far less power. If you can cope with the battery drain it is not essential. Anyway, it is often quieter at night, so there is a good chance that you will be motoring for at least some of the night. An alternative would be LED lights but I assume that you have not fitted these and don't want the expense. Night sailing is not hard, in fact often easier, but you may want to do the odd practice run to get your eye in and work out the logistics of where to put torches etc, clipping on, and just finding your way around the boat.

 

[Blue Sunray]

As far as I recall you have to inform Dover Port traffic control of your intention to pass Dover port and they require you to be 3 miles off ( or it maybe 2 I can't actually recall). I've heard them instructing passing yachts to that effect.

They do seem to get necessarily arrsey on the VHF but the transit requirement is only one mile off. That said I'm (genuinely) interested in where any requirement to contact them if just transiting is laid down as, following hearing a rather bad tempered exchange between them and a passing sailor, I did look around and couldn't find anything.

 

[Bru]

I'd agree that AIS is not essential nor is a tricolour.

I'm not at all sure I'd want my first overnight passage to be up or down channel though! There's a LOT going on in the channel, picking out the navigation lights inshore is very difficult against all the background light pollution and it would be very easy to lose the plot, as it were.

Better by far to make the first foray into night sailing (which is an absolute joy IMO) in (relatively) familiar waters, ideally IMO making a passage at night with which you're reasonably familiar by day - say from Fambridge to Harwich at night for example. That'll be exciting enough for a first time night sailor! (Without being too scary) and you're very unlikely to encounter unexpected weather and sea conditions that could really screw up your plans (which is definitely not the case in the Channel as already discussed)

 

[Bru]

They do seem to get necessarily arrsey on the VHF but the transit requirement is only one mile off. That said I'm (genuinely) interested in where any requirement to contact them if just transiting is laid down as following hearing a rather bad tempered exchange between them and a passing sailor I did look around and couldn't find anything.

Initial calling point is actually two miles off, not one

I too have been looking having also heard an exchange between Port Control and a passing vessel and I can't find anything either.

 

[laika]

That said I'm (genuinely) interested in where any requirement to contact them if just transiting is laid down

I've never knowingly been to Dover but a look at the Navionics webapp, zooming down through "Reporting Regulations (see lower zoom)" we get:

All vessels passing the harbour and the Area within 1 mile to seaward of the break waters should contact Dover Port Control on VHF channel 74 and report their ETA at a range of 3 miles from the port

 

[gilesfordcrush]

I have been keen to do more night sailing, what little I have done (which is usually leaving the Crouch single handed very early on a winter morning) has been fantastic. Certainly some experience building with my crew will be needed, and how convenient that there is so much darkness on offer at this time of year. The Crouch to Brightlingsea or Harwich would be ideal. All being well, it would give the confidence to continue a passage past Dover overnight if the conditions are favourable.

 

[Bru]

I've never knowingly been to Dover but a look at the Navionics webapp, zooming down through "Reporting Regulations (see lower zoom)" we get:

"All vessels passing the harbour and the Area within 1 mile to seaward of the break waters should contact Dover Port Control on VHF channel 74 and report their ETA at a range of 3 miles from the port"

I do wonder sometimes about where Navionics get their information from (and I don't trust any text on Navionics either!)

It is definitely 2 miles! It has been for at least the last eight years. It's all clearly stated on the Dover harbour website. And there's nothing there about passing vessels

The only problem can be getting a word in edgeways! By the time I got a chance to butt in last year going down channel I was barely a mile off