JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
The history syllabus in Scottish schools is very wide, and teachers choose what areas to cover based on many things; their own expertise, preferences and prejudices, local history and culture and so on.
Dylan has lost a fan
- Thread starter wully1
- Start date
The history syllabus in Scottish schools is very wide, and teachers choose what areas to cover based on many things; their own expertise, preferences and prejudices, local history and culture and so on.
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
Pretty much my conclusion, after completing higher history in Scotland.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, especially when half the tourist industry is dependent on it.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Pretty much my conclusion, after completing higher history in Scotland.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, especially when half the tourist industry is dependent on it.
The church bells throughout Glasgow were rung when news of the result at Culloden came through. This was not an uncommon reaction.
Seajet
...
I seem to remember Billy Connolly doing a good take on this which agreed 100% with Jumbleduck's image, with BPC sitting on a little horse called ' Lavender ' or similar !
jimmcgee
Well-Known Member
Scottish boating history says that any river deep enough to sail on will have a bridge built across it to stop that happening :encouragement:
:encouragement:
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Yes, but from my own experience and other friends (different schools, different years, all central belt) they were not taught it either. To a man and woman most of what we picked up were based on the biased an potted historical opinion of certain sporting rivalries. The result is a central belt that is quite ignorant of the facts but well aware of populist snapshots that frame a particular reference, usually religious related. I don't think it really matters as long as one comes to understand that this particular method of learning is rather inaccurate.
The question is just how relevant is this history today? Probably very relevant considering the recent vote, as it shows that the same self centred machinations and delusions are just as prevalent today in the common and political classes; as above, so below.
You state you are from borders country, do you know of Gilnockie?
Serin
Well-Known Member
Oh, but there is. A man made, administrative border, certainly, but that's how most borders are. But cross the border and all kinds of things change - legal system, education system etc. - all serving as a reminder that Scotland was once a kingdom in its own right. No getting away from that.
The comic strip view of Scottish history and the myths upon which it is built make for a much easier and more entertaining story than the complicated reality. I blame Queen Victoria and Mel Gibson. Last time I was in Edinburgh, dining in an excellent restaurant on Rose Street, I got talking with an American couple who clearly thought Braveheart was some kind of documentary and were appalled that I hadn't seen it. Wonderful tourist fodder. Make the most of it!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I think the problem is that the proddy-vs-tim business is so entrenched in the Central Belt, and particularly to the west , that history teachers have learned to skirt round whole swathes of Scottish history in the interested of self preservation. Tell the kids who the pope supported at the Battle of the Boyne and you'll have parents from both sides after your blood.
BlackPig
N/A
I was brought up being told 1745 was an English Scottish thing. But now believe it is one group of powerful people against anther group of powerful people using religion, nationalism, tribalism, to control the poor to get more power.
Nothing has changed.
Nothing has changed.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Yup. The revolutions haven't worked out too well, but Marx nailed the history side.
DaveS
Well-Known Member
Indeed.
Much of the shortbread tin "romance" about BPC I have little time for, and I pretty much share your view of his character, but one remarkable fact remains. In the months between Culloden and his escape back to France he was never betrayed despite the £30,000 price on his head, which says much for the character of his supporters. Anyone know what £30,000 in 1746 would be worth today?
Snowgoose-1
Well-Known Member
How true. Go to the top of the class.
Fantasie 19
Well-Known Member
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
A good condition Macgregor 26..
No Macgregors in 1745. They were proscribed in 1603.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
Back in Lossiemouth today - for a deep clean, a lick of varnish on the mast, check and tighten the rigging and also find a small man with a choice of spanners who is willing to climb into my locker to hold the bolts on the inside of my rudder bracket that is working loose.
I now have a free fat internet pipe
I have enjoyed this thread - despite its poor start. I sincerely apologise to those who did not like the film - with around 400 films now made and some with short sections about Palmerstone, Elizabeth 1, Mary Queen of Scots, De Ruyter, Nelson, The church just to name a few. It is hard to make sure that every one will be to everybodies taste or align with their view of history.
The reason I made it was for a bit of a laugh.
Clearly I missed the mark for some. I thought that making some cultural links between Culloden and Benverly sisters was worth a titter.
Having been up here for three summers now spanning the independence disucussion I have been on the receiving end of a few rants from those who think Scotland should be independent (as di I incidentally). I have been offered a number of astonishing historically based assertions about how bloody awful the English are and always have been to the Scottish. I have sometimes tried pointing out that having Scotland as a near neighbour has not always been a bowl of cherries. The invasions of England are often forgotten amidst anger over oil, clearances and football.
It seems that there has been some pretty rampant independence inspired Braveheartianist revisions of history going on. Over a glass of my cheap whisky I have been accused of being responsible for and benefitting from the clearances, of stealing all the oil, of growing fantastically rich off the back of Scottish hard work, of dragging the Scottish people in to wars in which they wanted no part, of using Scotland as a nuclear dump.
I have also heard about what fine fellows Robert the Bruce and William Wallace were.
I thought it was time that I read or re-read some history books - including Prebble - and it turned out that I have been offered a number of astonishing distortions.
I apologise to Wully - his contributions will be missed and he will sadly miss out on my forthcoming forensic insights into Scottish history and my undying admiration for Scottish engineering.
Thanks to Dave S for your carefully considered erudtition - all you say is, I assume, correct. I have taken the liberty of copying the words and putting them on the website by way of some balance. I am pleased to see that the primary error in my account appears to have been my failure to realise that BPC was crossing to Skye the long way - although I am still not sure that it counts as a sea journey - coastal hop perhaps. I described Keith as a traitor rather than a spy.
It does seem to me that there is some confusion in people's minds about BPC and Jesus - and F McD has become Mary in some way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8AZ46GKqc
Thanks to those who have chipped in towards the costs of making these films over the years - your contributions - financial, moral and critical have been marvellous. I quite understand those who have decided to withdraw their support - afterall - why should you chip in towards another man's sailing costs.
I now have a free fat internet pipe
I have enjoyed this thread - despite its poor start. I sincerely apologise to those who did not like the film - with around 400 films now made and some with short sections about Palmerstone, Elizabeth 1, Mary Queen of Scots, De Ruyter, Nelson, The church just to name a few. It is hard to make sure that every one will be to everybodies taste or align with their view of history.
The reason I made it was for a bit of a laugh.
Clearly I missed the mark for some. I thought that making some cultural links between Culloden and Benverly sisters was worth a titter.
Having been up here for three summers now spanning the independence disucussion I have been on the receiving end of a few rants from those who think Scotland should be independent (as di I incidentally). I have been offered a number of astonishing historically based assertions about how bloody awful the English are and always have been to the Scottish. I have sometimes tried pointing out that having Scotland as a near neighbour has not always been a bowl of cherries. The invasions of England are often forgotten amidst anger over oil, clearances and football.
It seems that there has been some pretty rampant independence inspired Braveheartianist revisions of history going on. Over a glass of my cheap whisky I have been accused of being responsible for and benefitting from the clearances, of stealing all the oil, of growing fantastically rich off the back of Scottish hard work, of dragging the Scottish people in to wars in which they wanted no part, of using Scotland as a nuclear dump.
I have also heard about what fine fellows Robert the Bruce and William Wallace were.
I thought it was time that I read or re-read some history books - including Prebble - and it turned out that I have been offered a number of astonishing distortions.
I apologise to Wully - his contributions will be missed and he will sadly miss out on my forthcoming forensic insights into Scottish history and my undying admiration for Scottish engineering.
Thanks to Dave S for your carefully considered erudtition - all you say is, I assume, correct. I have taken the liberty of copying the words and putting them on the website by way of some balance. I am pleased to see that the primary error in my account appears to have been my failure to realise that BPC was crossing to Skye the long way - although I am still not sure that it counts as a sea journey - coastal hop perhaps. I described Keith as a traitor rather than a spy.
It does seem to me that there is some confusion in people's minds about BPC and Jesus - and F McD has become Mary in some way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy8AZ46GKqc
Thanks to those who have chipped in towards the costs of making these films over the years - your contributions - financial, moral and critical have been marvellous. I quite understand those who have decided to withdraw their support - afterall - why should you chip in towards another man's sailing costs.
nicho
RIP
Great film Dylan, really enjoyed it. Didn't know the Beverley Sisters were still alive!
DaveS
Well-Known Member
Dylan,
No problem using my wee potted history. I used Magnus Magnusson's "Scotland: The Story of a Nation" (which I recommend as an easily digestible read) for dates and things.
I must say I consider crossing the Minch as a sea journey rather than a coastal hop, but there can be no absolute division between the two so each to his own.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
Onward! the sailors cry;
Carry the lad that's born to be King
short coastal hop to Skye.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Splendid ... revisionist historical songs could be A Thing.
Wha wadna fecht for Charlie?
Wha wadna draw the sword?
Wha wadna up an' rally
At the royal ... oh come on. There must be someone.
O Kenmure's on and awa, Willie,
O Kenmure's on and awa:
An' Kenmure's lord's the biggest traitor
That ever Galloway saw.
To the Lords of Convention 'twas Claver'se who spoke.
"Ere the King's crown shall fall there are correct procedures to be adopted;
So let each Cavalier who loves honour and me,
Come start a petition on change.org.
Last edited:
DaveS
Well-Known Member
In trying to answer my own question I came across this interesting paper: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/archive/Documents/historicpubs/qb/1994/qb940201.pdf
As best as I can see from the graph, RPI was about 100 in 1746 and about 7000 today, giving a 70 multiplier, making Charlie's head money worth £2,100,000 today.
Last edited: