Downsizing to a Wayfarer (dinghy cruisers, please advise..!)

[dancrane]

Bit of a tangent, this...but if one keeps a dinghy on a mooring, is it just as necessary to anti-foul her, as it is for a yacht? Or to regularly scrape the growth off her undersides?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Bit of a tangent, this...but if one keeps a dinghy on a mooring, is it just as necessary to anti-foul her, as it is for a yacht? Or to regularly scrape the growth off her undersides?

Yes.

 

[dancrane]

And presumably, continuous contact with the wet stuff makes a GRP hull much, much more likely to suffer osmosis...particularly if the boat was designed only to be dry-sailed?

I've heard of dinghies developing bubbles under the gelcoat just from being rested on damp carpet, on the trolley. I suppose there's more to worry about than just capsize.

 

[Kelpie]

I used to keep a Wayfarer on a mooring, and never bothered with antifoul.
It's relatively easy to haul the boat out on a trailer, and then flip it upside down, or take it home for a scrub.
Well, easier than doing that with a yacht...

 

[Derm]

Having read through all of this and having sailed Wayfarers and owned many cruising yachts, you are deluding your self. If you need an outboard for a Wayfarer it is questionable as to whether you are a good enough sailor to manage one in all conditions. Don't think about an open boat unless you are 100% confident in you sailing ability.
The Hunter 490 or any of the small Hunters like the 701 or Hunter 19 are fantastic boats and will look after you in any conditions. If you are not managing what you have just now single handed then I suspect a Wayfarer, when it picks up on a wave, starts to surf and plane will give you one hell of a shock.
Think carefully as to what sort of sailing you are really likely to do, very few people ever sail a Wayfarer and need navigation lights or electrical equipment, this is delusionary stuff. If you are crossing the Channel in the middle of the night on your own in a Wayfarer, then you have lost it, you are one of the mad explorers and you wouldn't be asking these sort of questions, you'd just be doing it.
Seriously though, ask yourself what you really want to achieve, there are plenty of brilliant choices out their and I for one would think of the Hunter 19 or the Achilles 24, which, if you are tough enough, will take you anywhere.

 

[dancrane]

...you are deluding your self. If you need an outboard for a Wayfarer it is questionable as to whether you are a good enough sailor to manage one...

...a Wayfarer, when it picks up on a wave, starts to surf and plane will give you one hell of a shock.

...very few people ever sail a Wayfarer and need navigation lights...

If you are crossing the Channel in the middle of the night on your own in a Wayfarer, then you have lost it...

That's a bit harsh...full of the sort of sweeping presumptions which prevent sensible, careful dinghy-cruising from expanding as it might.

The OP is on record as not planning any wild all-weather offshore cruising in his next boat...the dinghy idea seems mainly to arise from the relative ease with which a small light boat can be manhandled afloat and ashore, including being brought home during winter for maintenance and storage.

Several dinghy designs include provision for outboards - the fact that most racing classes don't, relates to their narrow field of intended use, unlike the cruising outlook where an auxiliary is often very handy. Why would fitting an outboard to a small cruising boat indicate the crew's inability? The question related to the possibility of an o/b for convenience.

I reckon the OP was asking about lights aboard a dinghy not because he hopes to play recklessly amongst the Channel's commercial traffic, but simply in order not to have his hours on the water completely dictated by the approach of dusk...

...dinghy sailing is largely limited to daylight hours because unfortunately, most dinghy designers and builders never think bigger than racing, which doesn't include a nocturnal element. But for occasions when a landfall may require another hour's sailing after sunset, lights are essential to any boat's kit, that's why yachts have them...and if a dinghy takes on a yacht's objectives, it should be similarly kitted-out.

As to the surprise-factor which a planing dinghy may give someone who is used to a keelboat...yes it'll get the heart beating faster, but that can add a pleasant new dimension to the sailing, rather than an unwelcome shock. Dinghies are usually designed to excite their crews for competitive purposes, but for unambitious singlehanded cruising, sails can be substantially downsized with reefing gear, giving much less demanding behaviour on the water.

Actually I agree that a small cabin-boat sounds best-suited to the OP's purposes. But it would be a fine thing if yachtsmen generally could remember that dinghy cruising doesn't have to relate to most people's mixed memories and concepts of alarming/comfortless hours spent dinghy-racing.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Having read through all of this and having sailed Wayfarers and owned many cruising yachts, you are deluding your self. If you need an outboard for a Wayfarer it is questionable as to whether you are a good enough sailor to manage one in all conditions.

That's fine - though a little harshly expressed - for pottering around reservoirs, but I think it is misguided when it comes to sailing longer distances or somewhere with significant tides, like the Bristol Channel. I have no outboard, not even a bracket, on my Hunter 490 while I am using her on Loch Ken, as oars do fine to get me home in a calm, but I'm sure as hell going to take one when I venture out on the Irish Sea with her.

 

[Bi111ion]

In my experience the outboard is essential for a cruising Wayfarer. Some times you just can't fight against a few knots of tide with oars, and we had long ones.

As for lights. Really, would anyone go dinghy cruising without lights any more than they they would not have a compass and chart, not carry flares, or not be equipped to reef?

 

[Derm]

Didn't intend to be harsh and I accept the rebuke. I have to confess to loving Wayfarers, they are a fantastic boat and I have both raced them and day sailed them. I do appreciate that people do cruise them, the more hardy do some distances. Wayfarers do capsize, not easily and normally when under spinnaker. I wouldn't want an outboard on the back in a capsize. And a Wayfarer does weigh 350 lbs plus what ever you carry. I would just invite the OP to really think about what he is trying to achieve and then purchase something to meet the desired outcome rather than buy a boat not quite knowing what he is really trying to achieve. The dream and the reality are often very different.

 

[dancrane]

The dream and the reality are often very different.

Echo that, many times. I haven't got anywhere near my dinghy-cruising dreams yet...although I'd be sorry to curtail them in prospect, before I've tried out the reality. :encouragement:

 

[Bi111ion]

.... I wouldn't want an outboard on the back in a capsize. ....

What we did, and this was the better designed Mk I so not sure how it works in other models, is the outboard was strapped down to the floorboards aft when not in use. When my Dad capsized around Hurst it was fine. It even started to take him in to Hamble. Possibly there is an advantage of a Seagull. Of course it is much better to have a purpose designed outboard well, but that usually comes in a heavy day boat and the performance of a Wayfarer was one of its advantages cruising.

Back to OP. as Derm says think about what you want to achieve. On the other hand sometimes you don't really know until you try it, and it becomes obvious with hindsight!

 

[Reptile Smile]

Having read through all of this and having sailed Wayfarers and owned many cruising yachts, you are deluding your self. If you need an outboard for a Wayfarer it is questionable as to whether you are a good enough sailor to manage one in all conditions. Don't think about an open boat unless you are 100% confident in you sailing ability.
The Hunter 490 or any of the small Hunters like the 701 or Hunter 19 are fantastic boats and will look after you in any conditions. If you are not managing what you have just now single handed then I suspect a Wayfarer, when it picks up on a wave, starts to surf and plane will give you one hell of a shock.
Think carefully as to what sort of sailing you are really likely to do, very few people ever sail a Wayfarer and need navigation lights or electrical equipment, this is delusionary stuff. If you are crossing the Channel in the middle of the night on your own in a Wayfarer, then you have lost it, you are one of the mad explorers and you wouldn't be asking these sort of questions, you'd just be doing it.
Seriously though, ask yourself what you really want to achieve, there are plenty of brilliant choices out their and I for one would think of the Hunter 19 or the Achilles 24, which, if you are tough enough, will take you anywhere.

So this was one of those 'deep breath' moments.

Those of us who sail in the upper reaches of the Severn, where 8 knot tides are by no means the fastest we sail in rather like to have options at our disposal. There are plenty of folk who consider going out without at least three methods of propulsion (sails/outboard/oars, or sails/outboard/spare outboard) foolhardy. I wasn't really seeking feedback on my sailing ability. I've sailed 625 miles in the last 3 years, with 460 of them as skipper, and 336 of them single-handed. I don't have so much doubt in my ability, as much as sense of being humble enough to ask for advice, and not being rash enough to ever think "I've cracked it".

Lights, as Dan says, are necessary where the tidal range (as in, the third highest in the world) dictates what you do to such an extent, including what time you'll be back, as it does in the Severn. Only an idiot would go out without being prepared in the Severn, and that includes lights, anchor and outboard for me. If others like to do without (and, indeed, every regatta, we have visiting Wayfarers from upstream who come down with none of those things), then they have my unswerving admiration. It's just not how I choose to sail.

Anyhow - thanks to all for their ongoing input, not least Dan for his much-appreciated understanding, empathy and corner-fighting abilities. I believe at the moment, I'm most swayed by the two boat approach, but it is doing no damage at all to hear opinions before reaching a conclusion...

 

[cirruss]

bloomin pricey

bloomin heavy

D

Dull sailing and nightmare detatching rudders I have heard?

 

[Kukri]

I would not want to try to cope with launching, sailing off, beaching and recovering a Wayfarer single handed. It will be heartbreaking.

Hunter 19s are nice. Hunter Europas are more comfortable and have self draining cockpits…. but they may be too close to your Hurley 20.

So, at the simple and cheap end…

If you have a mooring with one metre over it at MLWS, may I commend a Squib?

Sails very nicely and with the ballast keel she is an easy single hander. Far easier than a Wayfarer.

My younger son has one and his father gets to play with her. You can find a cruising and pottering Squib for £800 or so, with a good road trailer to haul out and lay up on. We made a tent for ours and she is a near perfect camping cruiser.

 

[Bi111ion]

What we did, and this was the better designed Mk I so not sure how it works in other models, is the outboard was strapped down to the floorboards aft when not in use. When my Dad capsized around Hurst it was fine. It even started to take him in to Hamble. Possibly there is an advantage of a Seagull. Of course it is much better to have a purpose designed outboard well, but that usually comes in a heavy day boat and the performance of a Wayfarer was one of its advantages cruising.

I sailed the S Coast this summer and my brother reminded me it was Start point where my dad capsized. But the engine worked whichever the next harbour was where they put in to.

 

[dancrane]

I bought an engine last summer, from a forumite. I've only used it on my Redcrest, because my Osprey has no sturdy transom to mount it on. Her light construction means I can't just bolt it on, and I don't want to open the rear compartment to reinforce the GRP with ply.

I'm making a sort of engine-mount box from one-inch marine ply, to hang from a ply platform extending over the rear deck to the cockpit, spreading the weight of the engine and its thrust. Difficult to describe because I'm not sure myself, how to fit it all together...

...not the greatest picture either, sorry. I plan to reinforce the box and its hangings with steel, and pad where it touches the deck and transom with pool-noodle. Since this ancient thread has been resurrected, perhaps I'll post the pics here when I finish...in 2024.

Late in 2017 I finally stepped backwards onto the gunwale and trapezed, before getting distracted by bigger boats for a few years.

Now I'm back on the dinghy, I've made a solution to what I felt was my chief difficulty - climbing backwards up the steep (when heeling) floor and out of the high-sided cockpit, when my hands were full of tiller and rope. I needed a step to push against...

...so in went those diagonals, which will still be level when the boat is seriously heeling. It may work. Video here, in due course.

 

[ianat182]

I'm a bit late to this discussion,but as Dan was making his Albacore submission it reminded me of a larger sister the Fairy Falcon. This is also made with the cold-moulded timber but has a 6ft beam and very roomy.
A chap called Charles Stock modified one by adding a cabin , which was commented upon favourably by one or other of the Yachting Magazines( perhaps PBO ) . There is a Boatshed website showing several modified Falcons and mention of one going cheaply ; apparently needing a jib and some other item.
I remember one at our sailing club on the Hamble, this was usually sailed by the owner with
at that time , his young son.
It was similar in weight I believe to a Wayfarer , so no lightweight, but not prone to capsizing very easily.

ianat182

 

[Caraway]

The last five of you are a bit late to the conversation. Lazarus would be proud.

 

[Sybarite]

My Classic Boat. Francois Vivier Morbic 12 - YouTube