Do you sail with the VHF on ? POLL

[boomerangben]

To play devils advocate for a moment, how many people here have actually heard a mayday AND been the first on scene to render assistance?
Well done to TSB240 and his assistance. It’s a brave move to tow a relatively large sailing boat in a small tender in those conditions. Thankfully TSB was upto it, but as he said, he had plenty of experience to undertake it with confidence. The outcome might have been worse if I had tried doing it. It’s a shame the casualty used ch 80 instead of 16.
As I’ve said earlier, I choose not to listen on the radio if on multi day cruises unless in high traffic densities or for weather etc. that is more to do with lack of facilities (no 12v system) and location than lack of respect. Should I therefore go out and invest in batteries, controllers , solar panels and a fixed VHF set in order to be allowed on the water by Capt Popeye? Of course I can still see flares or other visual signalling. Ah but no, flares are the devil’s making and are something else not allowed by forumites, along with CQR anchors.
I am not saying we shouldn’t have radios, nor would I suggest not listening to them if you can. But there’s an implication that radios are the only means of raising the alarm (true it might be very effective)but just how well prepared are forumites to hear a mayday, record the Lat and long, relay it accurately, plot it accurately and then effect the rescue. In other words it’s not just as simple as listening. So let’s here it then, what are your plans for receiving a mayday, how do you brief your crew?

 

[Robin]

Part of the problem is caused by the endless chatter, radiocheck requests and long range screaming DSC alarms repeated every 20 minutes or so from foreign stations too far away for local help. minimise these and more radios might even stay on.

 

[RupertW]

Err well its a very different life style plus obligations I assume or guess

Sailing Commercial or Pleasure , has a very long tradition , where saving others in distress is considered to be a Normal functiion of life afloat

When out at sea help or assistance can not always be available , distance , sight of , means of communicating , etcc etc means that we all when at Sea ought to be aware of all others in our vicinity ; Normal Navigation requires it , surely ; OK I can see that them that go to Sea to escape other problems in their lives , might not want to be bothered about others out there , but surely its an obligation set upon us all ; the Radio communication can be used to confirm our navigating intentions , to other craft , it can be used to enquire of others navigting intentions , it can be used to inform you of your standing into danger on your current course , lotsa things a Radio is very good if not essential for

My guess is that taking up Sailing for a life escapement is an unwise thing to get involved in , its rather conflicting with the essence of Going Afloat off Shore ; yep as asked earlier on , maybe there ought to be a Sign /object that can be hoisted high on a mast to signify that the Skipper is not neccesarily paying any attention

Wwe read in these pages sometimes of a Mobo Skipper stating that a Sailiing Yacht set a course unnecessarily far to near them , nearly involving a collision , just maybe the Yacht Skipper was one of them Not Paying Attention , as in their view all else should give way to them , especially Motorised Boats ; yep in my view , that clause in the Colregs and RYA stating that 'Motor gives way to Sail' has become a terrible a somewhat terrible rule that has caused so many collisions at Sea .

AS stated before , just maybe , if Life Solitary Escapisim is ones objective , then taking up Golf or Hiking is a far safer occupation

My guess is that Sailing is a collective objective , 'all those whom go to sea , venture out in Small Boats ' etc

Maybe following this post an approach , at a High Level , to our RYA in necessary to advise them of apparent failings in their Students or Teachings understandngs of what 'Life Afloat' really means ?

Oh well yet another task set for me

Thank you. Lots to think about there and particularly your definition of “Life afloat”. I don’t see sailing as a collective thing at all and maybe that’s our different starting points. I don’t think not having a VHF (or chartplotter or AIS or whatever) is the same as not paying attention, just choosing not to use another artificial aid that is rarely needed. But would I switch on the VHF if I was in deep trouble - almost certainly yes as well as the EPIRB but I would entirely understand if nobody was listening to the VHF. Lots to think about as it is a potentially a hypocritical decision.

 

[RupertW]

Out on the water in an emergency its a given that other boats or ships help each other out. Emergency services could take a while to arrive and situations can deteriorate quite fast . Having a vhf on may well help with that.

Why is it a given compared to driving a car, and in particular why is it a given that in order to help out the VHF must be on to cause a sail to be full of inane and irrelevant chatter?

 

[The Q]

Never have a marine band radio on.. no point on the Norfolk Broads .. Often have a private business channel VHF on, it's what our club uses for the rescue boats..

 

[ylop]

To play devils advocate for a moment, how many people here have actually heard a mayday AND been the first on scene to render assistance?

none of the people who have it turned off!

you don’t need to be first - the first might keep someone’s head out the water the second might be the one who gets them on board or helps passes over an extra fire extinguisher or provides an experienced person to get the sails under control so the rest of the crew can deal with the medical emergency etc.

then there’s the pan pans -eg, if you can save the volunteer lifeboat crew launching. That’s a good use of everyone’s time.

There’s another example - where someone on shore calls 999 because they think you are in trouble. The CG broadcast a mayday relay and you are the only person in that bay - lifeboat launch avoided if the radio is on.

But there’s an implication that radios are the only means of raising the alarm (true it might be very effective)but just how well prepared are forumites to hear a mayday, record the Lat and long, relay it accurately, plot it accurately and then effect the rescue. In other words it’s not just as simple as listening. So let’s here it then, what are your plans for receiving a mayday, how do you brief your crew?

on many boats a DSC mayday is automatically plotted for you! Unless I am doing something wrong not the case with PanPans? So they get manually plotted - to be honest a good mayday / PanPan comes with a description that means you can often eliminate it before plotting. I’ve never experienced a mayday that the CG didn’t respond to. This has the added advantage that whilst they are calming the situation down you can work out if you might be able to assist, assign crew member as scribe etc and then once they have their bit in hand they will make an all stations broadcast / mayday relay where a professional slowly and clearly reads the position on a very good quality transmitter. When I’ve been on a rib I might be best placed to respond but I’m least best placed to manually plot positions or even record details well.

 

[ylop]

Why is it a given compared to driving a car,

wouldn’t have been that long ago 50-60 yrs? When virtually anyone would have rendered assistance when driving a car!

But there is actually a statutory duty to aid others in distress at sea.

 

[TrondS]

Been quietly following this thread...
I find it scary and interesting at the same time, that some say "I only turn on my radio if or when I'm in need of assistance". I have talked to a lot of people here in Norway where I live, who also claims the same. But (luckily) as the poll shows, most of us do use our VHF radios.
Isn't that pretty selfish? It's like saying I could care less about providing assistance to others, but I do expect everyone to help me if I'm in distress.

My radio is always on ch16, the coast radio working channel and VTS whenever I'm underway, and most often (but not always, I could improve here) when at anchor.
During my many boating years I have participated in searches for other vessels, provided mayday relay... Couldn't have done that without the VHF radio.

 

[TSB240]

Part of the problem is caused by the endless chatter, radiocheck requests and long range screaming DSC alarms repeated every 20 minutes or so from foreign stations too far away for local help. minimise these and more radios might even stay on.

I use a £25 Chinese baofeng UV5r portable programmed with all the marine chanel frequencies mainly when I am anchored or moored. I have a Bluetooth Ram mic for the main set which will turn the main set on when required.
The UV5r has a small aerial but is useful for monitoring local( less than 5 mile) vhf transmissions.(less chatter!) This is a range that I consider the longest that I might be able to assist another person in distress given my displacement max speed of about 9 knots.
I picked up a mayday earlier in the year with it whilst at anchor 10 miles from a kayak in difficulty.
I was able to immediately use the main yacht 25 w radio to mayday relay to coast guard as they couldn't reliably hear the kayak comms.
The kayak and CG were very grateful and CG were able to more easily task and direct a lifeboat.
The UV 5r holds a battery charge for two days on monitor only.
I don't get DSC alarms with it!
Pre dsc radios the squelch control was very effective at cutting out long distance chatter but not a strong CG signal or a local distress call.

Perhaps the CG mantra should be a radio is useless unless left on.
Similar to RNLI a life jacket or bouyancy aid is useless without a crotch strap

 

[Elessar]

To play devils advocate for a moment, how many people here have actually heard a mayday AND been the first on scene to render assistance?
Well done to TSB240 and his assistance. It’s a brave move to tow a relatively large sailing boat in a small tender in those conditions. Thankfully TSB was upto it, but as he said, he had plenty of experience to undertake it with confidence. The outcome might have been worse if I had tried doing it. It’s a shame the casualty used ch 80 instead of 16.
As I’ve said earlier, I choose not to listen on the radio if on multi day cruises unless in high traffic densities or for weather etc. that is more to do with lack of facilities (no 12v system) and location than lack of respect. Should I therefore go out and invest in batteries, controllers , solar panels and a fixed VHF set in order to be allowed on the water by Capt Popeye? Of course I can still see flares or other visual signalling. Ah but no, flares are the devil’s making and are something else not allowed by forumites, along with CQR anchors.
I am not saying we shouldn’t have radios, nor would I suggest not listening to them if you can. But there’s an implication that radios are the only means of raising the alarm (true it might be very effective)but just how well prepared are forumites to hear a mayday, record the Lat and long, relay it accurately, plot it accurately and then effect the rescue. In other words it’s not just as simple as listening. So let’s here it then, what are your plans for receiving a mayday, how do you brief your crew?

4 times for me if you include PAN PANs. Twice effected a tow, one of those required an 8 hour tow from mid channel back to Dartmouth (I was in a mirage 28 bilge keel yacht with a single cylinder Yanmar)

 

[Robin]

In the past we have called in a situation once off guernsey and stood by whilst a local boat arrived to assist a small fishing boat in amongst rocks in water too shallow for us to enter. We once heard a mayday from a big wooden powerboat on fire off Ushant and responded to French CG that we were proceeding even though it was 9 miles away and we (sailboat) could make only 6 knots and others were much closer (commercial shipping) The(British) crew were all picked up from their liferaft by a German freighter and we were stood down, A French helicopter was also sent but the recued chose to remain on the freighter headed to UK rather than be airlifted to France and probably a big bill

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We’re a Ch16 boat. Pretty sure a Mayday would cut through my mental filter. We do it in the belief that us users of the sea are a self helping community.

 

[Momac]

Why is it a given compared to driving a car, and in particular why is it a given that in order to help out the VHF must be on to cause a sail to be full of inane and irrelevant chatter?

How are you going to hear and respond to a distress call if your vhf is off?

 

[Black Sheep]

Oh for goodness sake. What has that reg got to do with anything?

There is no legal obligation for a small boat user to have, or to monitor VHF in the UK. (outwith any local bylaws).

If you have a VHF set, and if you monitor CH16, and if you hear a Mayday, and if you are in a position to provide assistance, then yes you are obliged to take certain actions.

It should be quite clear from reading this increasingly irascible thread, that we don't all have the same boating experiences. Some sail singlehanded. Some sail boats with no 12v electrical system. Some sail in areas with a huge amount of inane chatter, radio checks, DSC alerts and what-have-you. Some sail in areas with almost no other water users. Some sail in busy areas adjacent to professional commercial users and SAR assets. Some sail in fully crewed yachts with communications setups to make NASA envious.

We all use our best skill and judgement when out on the water. We all (consciously or unconsciously) perform a risk analysis of the likelihood of hearing a Mayday, and of being in a position to offer material assistance, and weigh that up against the desirability (and practicality) of having the VHF permanently receiving. Unsurprisingly, we come to different conclusions.

 

[Elessar]

Oh for goodness sake. What has that reg got to do with anything?

There is no legal obligation for a small boat user to have, or to monitor VHF in the UK. (outwith any local bylaws).

If you have a VHF set, and if you monitor CH16, and if you hear a Mayday, and if you are in a position to provide assistance, then yes you are obliged to take certain actions.

It should be quite clear from reading this increasingly irascible thread, that we don't all have the same boating experiences. Some sail singlehanded. Some sail boats with no 12v electrical system. Some sail in areas with a huge amount of inane chatter, radio checks, DSC alerts and what-have-you. Some sail in areas with almost no other water users. Some sail in busy areas adjacent to professional commercial users and SAR assets. Some sail in fully crewed yachts with communications setups to make NASA envious.

We all use our best skill and judgement when out on the water. We all (consciously or unconsciously) perform a risk analysis of the likelihood of hearing a Mayday, and of being in a position to offer material assistance, and weigh that up against the desirability (and practicality) of having the VHF permanently receiving. Unsurprisingly, we come to different conclusions.

Seems not.

Seems some people don’t monitor 16 because they can’t be bothered, due to ignorance or for some other petty excuse .

I don’t call that “best skill and judgement”.

I call that selfish.

 

[Black Sheep]

Seems some people don’t monitor 16 because [spurious invented reasons deleted] .

I don’t call that “best skill and judgement”.

I call that selfish.

Did you even read my post?
There's no need for personal abuse, just because you don't agree with someone else's assessment - especially when you have no idea of their circumstances.

 

[RupertW]

How are you going to hear and respond to a distress call if your vhf is off?

View attachment 141034

Does that apply to pleasure craft? And also, to be pedantic, if I haven’t heard the distress call because the VHF is off then I haven’t received information from any source so am not bound by the following obligations. All the examples given in this thread seem to be crowded waters with minor issues where the boat can only tangentially help. That doesn’t mean I disagree with people for keeping the radio squawking during their sail but it’s a lot of nuisance for a tiny likelihood of being needed.

 

[Momac]

If you have a VHF set, and if you monitor CH16, and if you hear a Mayday, and if you are in a position to provide assistance, then yes you are obliged to take certain actions.

Thank you .

Therefore if you have a vhf it is within the spirit of the requirements , even if not a legal requirement, to have the vhf on.

 

[Momac]

Does that apply to pleasure craft? And also, to be pedantic, if I haven’t heard the distress call because the VHF is off then I haven’t received information from any source so am not bound by the following obligations. All the examples given in this thread seem to be crowded waters with minor issues where the boat can only tangentially help. That doesn’t mean I disagree with people for keeping the radio squawking during their sail but it’s a lot of nuisance for a tiny likelihood of being needed.

Correct you are not required to listen.
Not sure why all the chatter on ch16 . Its not the case on the East coast .

 

[Black Sheep]

Therefore if you have a vhf it is within the spirit of the requirements , even if not a legal requirement, to have the vhf on.

You're inventing things again!
No - the requirement is as it is written. When you receive information of a distress situation, then if you are in a position to be able to provide assistance, then you have certain obligations. The regulation quite deliberately does not specify any sources of the information. To suggest that there is some "spirit" to the regulation, that isn't written down, but that you think puts an obligation on all sailors, is nonsense.

I wonder whether you (and perhaps one or two other posters) are getting confused by the occasional advice that if you have radar fitted, then you are obliged to get training, and obliged to use it (a debatable interpretation of Rule 7(b))?