Do you sail with the VHF on ? POLL

[ylop]

Incident where a Training Sailing Vessel carrying about 40 persons , was run down by a large Ship , it transpired that the Saing Vessel Captain /Skipper was not apparently covering a Radio Watch ,

not familiar with this story but does it excuse a collision? Nowhere in the colregs does it suggest calling by vhf

; cripes if we want to play a 'Mans Game' , Sailing /Boating surely we should play properly /effectively and in so take full responsibility

WTF are you on about. I assume this was a reference to Mr Souness. If you think it’s acceptable to describe sailing as “a Man’s Game” then you probably belong back in an era before vhf radios.

So if I ever get afloat near Cowes etc I should be prepared to keep a special Watch Out for un navigated Yachts ?

even if 20% of radios in the solent are turned off you’ll still be within literal shouting distance of two or three other boats!

 

[TSB240]

I have mine on dual watch with Channel 80 and 16 at all times on the Menai.

Last Sunday.
I happened to over hear a conversation on 80 between doc master and a boat suffering from engine overheating in a 3knot tide no wind as they approached Victoria Doc.

I was able to call doc master and inform him that we were moored downtide and had fendered and lined port side ready for the drifting boat to raft if their anchor couldn't hold them in a very strong tide.
I knew from monitoring 16 that local RNLI were all ready tasked on multiple calls and Holyhead CG were full on emergency working. This was later confirmed by Doc master.

The four people on board rightly thought they were not in immediate life threatening danger. In their panic to try and get their engine restarted they managed to cut all comms via vhf by turning off the main neutral breaker. This is a very good argument for a vhf to be independently fused in both live and neutral with a direct feed from the battery.

3 big ribs went past them ignoring or unaware of their plight but I doubt they were listening out for a pan pan on 16.

I launched our dinghy ,rigged and managed a single handed side tow to ferry glide the 8m yacht into the very narrow Caernarfon Victoria Doc with only a 5hp four-stroke engine on a 2.7m dinghy.

57 years experience gave me the confidence that I could do it. The task was only made difficult by ignorant rib and mobo drivers passing less than 50m away creating significant wash or threatening to unset their anchor. Local rules say 5kots max so most were creating max wash at 8knots plus through the water!

Radios should always be on.

The owners and their parents were inexperienced and scared. The one experienced inland dinghy sailor quickly grasped the ferry gliding technique and managed HER crew better than any RYA yachtmaster I know!

 

[ylop]

Not my line to draw. I take one in my 2.6m RIB tender though.
But I do wonder if this is an excuse masquerading as a question.

no it was a genuine question - im an “on all the time we are sailing” person. It is your line to draw - you were the one being judgemental about others who elect not to maintain a ch16 listening watch so under what circumstances do you turn it off? I carry a h/held in a tender (because I might need it) but don’t usually turn it on. I’ve never kept the radio on at anchor but I might in a busy anchorage in really dodgy weather if I was worried I or others might drag. I’ve never kept it on on a mooring but given so many people get in trouble with tenders and I might be really close perhaps I should.

I take your point too. Perhaps “the line” is if you can potentially offer assistance.

I agree - although there are times when people who wouldn’t normally expect to be able to help might (eg kayakers aren’t your normal choice of rescue craft but might keep a swimmer afloat till real help arrives) or even be able to avoid a lifeboat launch from a concerned member of the public reporting someone “adrift” who is actually having a rest/pee/cup of tea! But it’s easy for me to say that as I never paddle more than a few hours, and otherwise always have proper power. We need to be careful that we don’t put people in the smallest craft off carrying a vhf completely!

 

[ylop]

3 big ribs went past them ignoring or unaware of their plight but I doubt they were listening out for a pan pan on 16.

You may be right - but I would be surprised! I’d completely expect they were listening on 16 not 80, and I’ve never met a rib skipper who wasn’t delighted to show you how wise he was to buy a rib and offer a tow to anyone who asked! That includes those I’ve met in wales although I do recognise that in the last 2 yrs all sorts of people have bought boats so that may have changed!

 

[Capt Popeye]

Might ask , has anybody thats taken a RYA course been advised , that the use of a Radio is really either essential or good practice , then ?

 

[Capt Popeye]

I have mine on dual watch with Channel 80 and 16 at all times on the Menai.

Last Sunday.
I happened to over hear a conversation on 80 between doc master and a boat suffering from engine overheating in a 3knot tide no wind as they approached Victoria Doc.

I was able to call doc master and inform him that we were moored downtide and had fendered and lined port side ready for the drifting boat to raft if their anchor couldn't hold them in a very strong tide.
I knew from monitoring 16 that local RNLI were all ready tasked on multiple calls and Holyhead CG were full on emergency working. This was later confirmed by Doc master.

The four people on board rightly thought they were not in immediate life threatening danger. In their panic to try and get their engine restarted they managed to cut all comms via vhf by turning off the main neutral breaker. This is a very good argument for a vhf to be independently fused in both live and neutral with a direct feed from the battery.

3 big ribs went past them ignoring or unaware of their plight but I doubt they were listening out for a pan pan on 16.

I launched our dinghy ,rigged and managed a single handed side tow to ferry glide the 8m yacht into the very narrow Caernarfon Victoria Doc with only a 5hp four-stroke engine on a 2.7m dinghy.

57 years experience gave me the confidence that I could do it. The task was only made difficult by ignorant rib and mobo drivers passing less than 50m away creating significant wash or threatening to unset their anchor. Local rules say 5kots max so most were creating max wash at 8knots plus through the water!

Radios should always be on.

The owners and their parents were inexperienced and scared. The one experienced inland dinghy sailor quickly grasped the ferry gliding technique and managed HER crew better than any RYA yachtmaster I know!

WoW a great thank you Mr TSB , a post from someone who understands the traditional obligations , responsibilities , of going afloat , safety of one's own craft plus others

So good to read a post from 'the good guys ' out there

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Might ask , has anybody thats taken a RYA course been advised , that the use of a Radio is really either essential or good practice , then ?

I was advised that if fitted, a listening watch was mandatory. The ITU ( the international governing body) regard it as being at least strongly advised for non-SOLAS vessels; UK legislation may strengthen that.

The bottom line is, do you want to have to tell an enquiry that you were in a position to save life, but didn't know about it because you weren't keeping a listening watch?

 

[Elessar]

I have mine on dual watch with Channel 80 and 16 at all times on the Menai.

Last Sunday.
I happened to over hear a conversation on 80 between doc master and a boat suffering from engine overheating in a 3knot tide no wind as they approached Victoria Doc.

I was able to call doc master and inform him that we were moored downtide and had fendered and lined port side ready for the drifting boat to raft if their anchor couldn't hold them in a very strong tide.
I knew from monitoring 16 that local RNLI were all ready tasked on multiple calls and Holyhead CG were full on emergency working. This was later confirmed by Doc master.

The four people on board rightly thought they were not in immediate life threatening danger. In their panic to try and get their engine restarted they managed to cut all comms via vhf by turning off the main neutral breaker. This is a very good argument for a vhf to be independently fused in both live and neutral with a direct feed from the battery.

3 big ribs went past them ignoring or unaware of their plight but I doubt they were listening out for a pan pan on 16.

I launched our dinghy ,rigged and managed a single handed side tow to ferry glide the 8m yacht into the very narrow Caernarfon Victoria Doc with only a 5hp four-stroke engine on a 2.7m dinghy.

57 years experience gave me the confidence that I could do it. The task was only made difficult by ignorant rib and mobo drivers passing less than 50m away creating significant wash or threatening to unset their anchor. Local rules say 5kots max so most were creating max wash at 8knots plus through the water!

Radios should always be on.

The owners and their parents were inexperienced and scared. The one experienced inland dinghy sailor quickly grasped the ferry gliding technique and managed HER crew better than any RYA yachtmaster I know!

Well done you. And you make the point very well indeed.

 

[Elessar]

The bottom line is, do you want to have to tell an enquiry that you were in a position to save life, but didn't know about it because you weren't keeping a listening watch?

Sod the enquiry. Do you want to tell yourself that?

 

[RupertW]

Sod the enquiry. Do you want to tell yourself that?

Well, there are loads of bad of things that happen in the world and the workplace that I’m not aware of at the time. I go sailing to get away from it all, not to stay in communication and spend 99% of the time being interrupted by inanities. I can see the other side and clearly I’m in a tiny irresponsible minority in this poll but I only reluctantly got a VHF for approaching major port control and that’s about the only time it’s ever on for a few minutes.

I don’t have a police scanner in my car in case I can provide amateur help in a traffic emergency and I don’t understand why it is different but I’m following this thread to try to understand why other people do.

 

[Elessar]

Well, there are loads of bad of things that happen in the world and the workplace that I’m not aware of at the time. I go sailing to get away from it all, not to stay in communication and spend 99% of the time being interrupted by inanities. I can see the other side and clearly I’m in a tiny irresponsible minority in this poll but I only reluctantly got a VHF for approaching major port control and that’s about the only time it’s ever on for a few minutes.

I don’t have a police scanner in my car in case I can provide amateur help in a traffic emergency and I don’t understand why it is different but I’m following this thread to try to understand why other people do.

Not only selfish but frankly a bit daft if you can’t see the difference between a VHf and a police scanner.

TSB240 sets the example of skilled semanship.

 

[RupertW]

Not only selfish but frankly a bit daft if you can’t see the difference between a VHf and a police scanner.

TSB240 sets the example of skilled semanship.

I am daft. I can’t see the difference. Please explain why I should treat sailing as different to car driving.

 

[Elessar]

Thank goodness this mobo owner isn’t daft enough to tar all sailors with the same brush.

Sorry Rupert I don’t know where to start. And you’re probably too daft to listen anyway.

 

[RupertW]

Thank goodness this mobo owner isn’t daft enough to tar all sailors with the same brush.

Sorry Rupert I don’t know where to start. And you’re probably too daft to listen anyway.

Ah well, maybe somebody understands what the motivation is and may be able to explain.

 

[Momac]

Ah well, maybe somebody understands what the motivation is and may be able to explain.

Out on the water in an emergency its a given that other boats or ships help each other out. Emergency services could take a while to arrive and situations can deteriorate quite fast . Having a vhf on may well help with that.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I am daft. I can’t see the difference. Please explain why I should treat sailing as different to car driving.

Channel 16 and DSC are public, all ships channels. Police radio is private, used for operational purposes. The former explicitly expects ALL ships to be listening; it is actually illegal to monitor the latter, and no-one expects you to. Furthermore, it is very unlikely that you could render better aid than the emergency services on land; at sea you could potentially be the first on the scene and save lives. There's no comparison whatsoever.

 

[Capt Popeye]

I am daft. I can’t see the difference. Please explain why I should treat sailing as different to car driving.

Err well its a very different life style plus obligations I assume or guess

Sailing Commercial or Pleasure , has a very long tradition , where saving others in distress is considered to be a Normal functiion of life afloat

When out at sea help or assistance can not always be available , distance , sight of , means of communicating , etcc etc means that we all when at Sea ought to be aware of all others in our vicinity ; Normal Navigation requires it , surely ; OK I can see that them that go to Sea to escape other problems in their lives , might not want to be bothered about others out there , but surely its an obligation set upon us all ; the Radio communication can be used to confirm our navigating intentions , to other craft , it can be used to enquire of others navigting intentions , it can be used to inform you of your standing into danger on your current course , lotsa things a Radio is very good if not essential for

My guess is that taking up Sailing for a life escapement is an unwise thing to get involved in , its rather conflicting with the essence of Going Afloat off Shore ; yep as asked earlier on , maybe there ought to be a Sign /object that can be hoisted high on a mast to signify that the Skipper is not neccesarily paying any attention

Wwe read in these pages sometimes of a Mobo Skipper stating that a Sailiing Yacht set a course unnecessarily far to near them , nearly involving a collision , just maybe the Yacht Skipper was one of them Not Paying Attention , as in their view all else should give way to them , especially Motorised Boats ; yep in my view , that clause in the Colregs and RYA stating that 'Motor gives way to Sail' has become a terrible a somewhat terrible rule that has caused so many collisions at Sea .

AS stated before , just maybe , if Life Solitary Escapisim is ones objective , then taking up Golf or Hiking is a far safer occupation

My guess is that Sailing is a collective objective , 'all those whom go to sea , venture out in Small Boats ' etc

Maybe following this post an approach , at a High Level , to our RYA in necessary to advise them of apparent failings in their Students or Teachings understandngs of what 'Life Afloat' really means ?

Oh well yet another task set for me

 

[ylop]

I don’t have a police scanner in my car in case I can provide amateur help in a traffic emergency and I don’t understand why it is different but I’m following this thread to try to understand why other people do.

I think your analogy is flawed although I can kind of see where you are coming from. If cars had no handbrakes so just rolled around when broken down, if our emergency services were primarily volunteer based and had to be called out and if mobile phone reception was poor on land you might have a different view on who should/might render assistance? Perhaps on the south coast there are so many rescue services help will always be there quickly, and the chances you'll be the guy who is closest are small. On the other hand if someone has fallen overboard 1/2 a mile from you and their partner is struggling to get the boat under control would you notice - you could be the person who can arrive in the small window before its too late (especially if their lifejacket didn't work etc).

Have you never helped anyone in difficulty ashore either? I've provided first aid to someone in an overturned car on the motorway. I've stopped and given someone a lift to a petrol station in a rural area who misjudge it (or ran out of hope & fumes!). I've given the odd person a push in the snow or a flat battery. I've stopped and helped a young lad who had fallen off a wall and (probably) broken his leg about 1/2 a mile from home: I called an ambulance and his mum. I don't think I've ever saved someone's life - but I've possibly saved their day or made them a little less frightened. I don't go looking for problems I just have my eyes open and consider myself a decent human being! I hope that if I or one of my children was in a similar plight that someone else would help them.

Rather than feeling there's too many bad things in the world I don't need to go looking for more - helping someone actually gives you a bit of a nice feeling that you've done something good to make the world slightly better. Perhaps you should try it.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Sorry , but might give First Hand experiences of Police Raidio Communications ; we used to monitor the Radio all the time , one gets used to the chit chat and can easily listen out for relevant information that either involved one or can be disreguarded ; NB was much easier being Water Bourne as the number of invcidents that we could help /assist in was very small ; the normal is then for Control to state a channel to those involved in a Pursuit / Incident to change to , leaving the Open Channel for normal communications

The Police are also aware of 'others' possibly listening in on the Open Channel for Police evasive purposes

 

[Supertramp]

When I am on passage or out daysailing my VHF is on 16, as many here said. I adjust the volume to suit conditions. Until recently I had never sailed with VHF fitted - teaches self sufficiency! Turning it on is part of my "pre flight preparation" along with plotter, autopilot, lifejackets etc.

But I turn it off at anchor or moored. Perhaps that's wrong?

Overall its an important help to sailing - I use it for getting up to date weather forecasts and warnings when out of phone range and navigation warnings (survey vessels, restricted manouver ability ships for example).

I think sailing is very different from driving with less rules and greater reliance on common sense.

A better comparison is mountaineering where you choose the safety equipment and the risks you take. But like sailing, most would do whatever they could to help fellow mountaineers in trouble which includes staying alert to signals, sounds and sight of trouble.