Sea Change
Well-Known Member
10S cell configuration??
If the unit is designed primarily to run loads through the inverter, then I suppose it doesn't really matter what voltage the actual battery is at.
DIY LiFePo4 installation - Don't do what I did (maybe) . . .
- Thread starter Tradewinds
- Start date
If the unit is designed primarily to run loads through the inverter, then I suppose it doesn't really matter what voltage the actual battery is at.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Hmm could be. Odd though, all the 12V outlets would need a DC-DC converter. Might account for the high charge rate.
Baggywrinkle
Well-Known Member
I guess because it has so many different voltage outputs - especially on USB C, then if you take 1152Wh you can find out how long it will last based on the USB C voltage of 5/9/12/15/20V @ 3A and 20V @ 5A
... maybe?
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Given its intended usage, it's quite clever, I suppose. Lighter cabling inside, you can run a big inverter from a small battery, you can charge it faster.
All at the cost of an extra component inside, creating heat, reducing reliability and efficiency.
It will be interesting to see how they work for long term liveaboard use. But if you want to run a waffle iron on your camping trip, they do look useful.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Agree, could be useful for camping, caravanning etc. But i find it hard to see where it's a good solution for virtually any boat.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
I recently watched a Magic Carpet video, they have got one of these as a temporary solution. They were fairly honest about their reasons and the positive and negative aspects of it. They don't want to rush or bodge their permanent installation so they are using a power station just to let them start using the boat this summer. But it takes up a big chunk of space and they have cables running everywhere, not to mention the poor value for money that they represent.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Couple of lead acids and a cheap inverter might be a better temp solution, depending on the boat of course.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
I didn’t say it made sense! Each model seems to have a different voltage too if that spec is to be believed. I suppose in theory if you roll your own components then changing voltage would be an easy way to get higher current flows for charging. Seems more likely the spec sheet is wrong and they’re using standard parts but who knows
rotrax
Well-Known Member
I'll let you know when we have downsized to a smaller boat and lived with it for a while.
Of course it is not a Universal Panacea, and is more expensive than making one yourself.
Frankly, at my time of life, I cant be arsed.
Also, if it is suitable for camping or caravaning, why would it not serve EXACTLY the same purpose on a boat? After all, many smaller vessels are compared to 'Camping on Water'.
It is not too big, not too heavy, does what a 2KW petrol genny does but for a shorter time. Can also charge devices.
First Mate will be able to use her Instant Pot, Air Fryer and charge devices. It can be charged from Shorepower, Solar and the emgine alternator. When cruising, I expect it to be charged when we need it.
It will not be, as others have said, better than a properly installed whole boat LiFePo solution.
But it is instant, portable and managable in size and weight. Apart from a small fan, it is silent.
Plus it is unlikely to trouble my insurance company. Which, of course, is where we came in!
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
I did say "virtually any boat", probably should add "virtually any person" too. I'll be interested to hear how you have found, when you've used it for a while. In particular, how well it works with things like the Instant Pot and air fryer.
There are charging constraints with all of those options, notably solar input limits and even more so alternator charging. Remind me which model you are getting please ?
rotrax
Well-Known Member
I have already blued my dosh on the Bluetti 180.
It ran our air fryer, instant pot-the smallest one-and boiled a 2KW kettle just like the mains. It worked a powerful commercial SDS power drill, again just like the mains.
I will report here when in use on the boat-when we get our 'Downsize' boat.
I was tempted after speaking with a pro high end shipwright who has installed-or overseen installation-on several vessels, plus speaking with a lady with a high end power cat who had one in use. Both were very complimentary about them.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Don’t be too sure that a stand-alone Lithium battery system won’t trouble your insurance company.
It probably won’t if you never charge it on board. But the insurance guidelines (and potentially formal policy restrictions) seem to increasingly discourage - possibly prohibit - charging Lithium batteries if not on board. So nipping to the shower block or pub whilst charging on shore power may not be covered. It does not seem to be restricted to installed systems.
I suspect this is the result of some major boat losses reputed (but not yet proven?) to be caused by charging lithium batteries on gadgets and water “toys”. Folks on the Motorboat forum referred to recent insurance restrictions in this respect.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Getting back to the use of a 'power station' I have just read a post on the Bluetti 180 FB Group.
An owner says :-"Runs the Starlink Mini on the usb port for 36 plus hours. When I add the fridge, it says it will run both for 24 hours plus!"
That seems OK to me.
An owner says :-"Runs the Starlink Mini on the usb port for 36 plus hours. When I add the fridge, it says it will run both for 24 hours plus!"
That seems OK to me.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
Starlink Mini is about 25w, so 25*36=900wh, which is a little under what the unit claims (1152wh).
But it's just arithmetic really. Look at what you need to run and get the battery or power station that can do that.
Your Bluetti is roughly equivalent to 190Ah of lead acid, but it's far more useful because it can charge and discharge faster, and has all the extras (charger, inverter) incorporated. Certainly a solution for some situations.
Moodysailor
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting thread to follow, as we are refitting our boat and LifePO4 batteries are on the list. I have checked my insurance docs and there is no mention of batteries or lithium exclusions, so I’ll email them to double-check.
I will also ask how I am being covered as I’m doing the installation myself, but I am an ABYC certified marine electrician (and yes, it's an ABYC course so is to their standards, not a government or industry independent scheme). It will be interesting to know if it will be considered DIY as I haven't paid someone independant of me to do it, or professional due to my experience and qualifications.
My view on the definition listed by the OP's insurers is they probably mean someone who can demonstrate they are suitably trained & experienced and has a legitimate business. That provides the insurance company with a greater level of confidence that the job will have been done to a decent standard, and possible recourse in the event something goes wrong - it's risk management after all. If I look at our contracts (commercial maritime) we have similar clauses that refer to 'professional manner' and 'appropriate custom and usage for the trade or industry' in the absence of legitimate qualifications. It does sound like the OP's insurers used some standard legal text that doesn't have any real substance in this context (as highlighted by others), but industry terms, definitions and previous legal context would likely prolude even a robust defence from a "well-meaning DIY-er" from making it to a claim.
I will also ask how I am being covered as I’m doing the installation myself, but I am an ABYC certified marine electrician (and yes, it's an ABYC course so is to their standards, not a government or industry independent scheme). It will be interesting to know if it will be considered DIY as I haven't paid someone independant of me to do it, or professional due to my experience and qualifications.
My view on the definition listed by the OP's insurers is they probably mean someone who can demonstrate they are suitably trained & experienced and has a legitimate business. That provides the insurance company with a greater level of confidence that the job will have been done to a decent standard, and possible recourse in the event something goes wrong - it's risk management after all. If I look at our contracts (commercial maritime) we have similar clauses that refer to 'professional manner' and 'appropriate custom and usage for the trade or industry' in the absence of legitimate qualifications. It does sound like the OP's insurers used some standard legal text that doesn't have any real substance in this context (as highlighted by others), but industry terms, definitions and previous legal context would likely prolude even a robust defence from a "well-meaning DIY-er" from making it to a claim.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
Exactly what we did.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem I can think of with an off the shelf lithium power station is that its difficult to increase its ability. Most people underestimate how useful the device will be and wish they had bought bigger. If you build your own you know exactly how it is wired and modifying is easier. Your original concept was based on your wife's favourite - her air fryer. But the airfryer is so good she can see the advantage of a bigger one - but your off the shelf power station, primarily the inverter is too small.
Parkinson's Law, or a variation of:
'The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource'
The Lithium power station has been likened to a generator - a difference is that a generator can be run for longer, creating more power (and noise) a power plant in a box has a number of restrictions.
Jonathan
Parkinson's Law, or a variation of:
'The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource'
The Lithium power station has been likened to a generator - a difference is that a generator can be run for longer, creating more power (and noise) a power plant in a box has a number of restrictions.
Jonathan
Last edited:
RogerJolly
Well-Known Member
Surely it can't be workable that there's exclusions that you have to find out for yourself.
Otherwise we could we get something like 'claim denied - you were wearing a blue jumper, you should have checked with us it wasn't allowed'.
Isn't the policy wording a way of nailing down the liabilities in black and white as legal contract, or something like it?
billskip
Well-Known Member
I think (I could be wrong), the Bluetti caters for expansion...
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
To a point. But insurance for boats, cars etc usually prohibit material changes, unless agreed previously (or words to that effect).
Changing from lead acid to Lithium is a significant change.
This is also where previous comments in this thread about not being able to DIY change LA batteries, or add an extra battery, is wrong. That's just maintenance not material changes. IMO