Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
If you look at my post#1 - they used the words 'professional' and 'qualified' in their list of requirements.
DIY LiFePo4 installation - Don't do what I did (maybe) . . .
- Thread starter Tradewinds
- Start date
billskip
Well-Known Member
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
But in the real world, we use it to mean having attained a specific certificate as dictated by the relevant authorities.
You might have the standard of skill, knowledge, and ability necessary to drive a car, but if you lose your license you are described as disqualified.
billskip
Well-Known Member
I have long held the belief that the insurance company's have actually reduced the availability of skillful people and the world revolves round people with good memories and bits of paper.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
In that case, no-one will be able to have Lithium batteries on a boat, because there are no "specific certificates" and there is no "relevant authority".
On the other and, i think you may find in the real, real World it can have the meaning from the dictionary. Pretty sure that marine insurance companies are aware that there are no "specific certificates" and there is no "relevant authority", that's been my experience with dealing with them for claims assessments and carrying out repairs.
That makes no sense at all in the context of this thread.
ducked
Well-Known Member
Well, the the fair summary didn't include mention of the probability (raised above) that DIY lead acid installation is also excluded from cover. That'd be quite awkward if true, and it applies to 3rd party
Neeves
Well-Known Member
A further issue
Where do members keep documentation - on the vessel that caught fire and or sank?
Many commercial, professional, marine organisations have an unusually short lifespan, some are very difficult to contact (this might all be directly related to the volume of complaints
). What is the insurance company going to do if the installer of the lithium battery and its ancillary equipment has retired, or moved to a different a career path. If there are no formal qualifications and/or certification how is anyone meant to be able to judge competence. Registering a business is easy, raising invoices is easy - knowing which fuses to use also easy, just make a search on YBW (that's what the search function is for )
I reckon that if you had the foresight you could have made a list of all the YBW Lithium threads and become an instant 'Professional'. Geem, Sea Fever aka Kelpie et al have laid it all our for us.
How many members here ask to see an insurance certificate of the contractor who are doing work on their yacht.....?
Jonathan
Where do members keep documentation - on the vessel that caught fire and or sank?
Many commercial, professional, marine organisations have an unusually short lifespan, some are very difficult to contact (this might all be directly related to the volume of complaints
). What is the insurance company going to do if the installer of the lithium battery and its ancillary equipment has retired, or moved to a different a career path. If there are no formal qualifications and/or certification how is anyone meant to be able to judge competence. Registering a business is easy, raising invoices is easy - knowing which fuses to use also easy, just make a search on YBW (that's what the search function is for )I reckon that if you had the foresight you could have made a list of all the YBW Lithium threads and become an instant 'Professional'. Geem, Sea Fever aka Kelpie et al have laid it all our for us.
How many members here ask to see an insurance certificate of the contractor who are doing work on their yacht.....?
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Few yachts are written off or are a 100% loss.
Most insurance claims will be theft or minor collisions none of which will involve the electrical systems.
Loss of a yacht as a result of fire, which I assume is the focus of the insurance industry, cannot ? be, numerically, large - the big losses are circular storms (which are not yet caused by Lithium batteries).
Maybe one's thoughts should be less alarmist - after all....
this is not an anchor thread.
Jonathan
fredrussell
Well-Known Member
Is ‘qualified’ a noun? Surely not?
billskip
Well-Known Member
It made me smile when I came across it, I wish now I had screen shot instead of cut/paste. However I will post it up if I come across it again......
shanemax
N/A
I think you have just put the wind up an awful lot of people. If you think your insurance company are being over the top try booking one onto any airline in the world as parcel luggage !. . . Notify my boat insurers that I'm changing to a LiFePo4 battery installation.
I replied with a lengthy email detailing my installation and the (top) quality components I was using. A reply has just come back from a senior director of the company which is basically - No, it has to be professionally specified and installed.
and, if I was to go ahead with my LiFePo install
In the light of all this I have decided to stick with my original FLA set-up - I would imagine the cost of a professional install would be too cost prohibitive for me ( a poor pensioner).
For the record I understand the insurer's point of view - in mitigation I did check my insurance documents and visit the insurer's website prior to proceeding with the build and found nothing at this level of outright rejection.
I have just checked their website again and it is obvious that their view on retrofitted (ie DIY) installations by boat owners has changed to our disadvantage.
Note: I may be offering for sale at advantageous prices various (quality) parts from my aborted LiFePo4 install in the near future - watch this space.
Ah well, it was a fun learning experience.
BTW this is not a gripe against my insurers - after all it is their ball - it's a heads up for others on the forum.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
Even I don't think that I'm stupid enough to do that!
Tranona
Well-Known Member
The batteries they ban (correctly) are different from those used in boat systems. Boat batteries have different chemistry and do not spontaneously combust. The concern is more about the security of the charging systems, fusing, wiring etc to manage the potentially high currents used.
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware that they recognised the difference. I've only seen reference to a limit of 100whr, for the particular airline I was using.
It would be a big step forward if there was greater recognition that not all lithium batteries carry the same risks.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
There are a number of posters on here that are using the wrong fuses, some are using fuses specified by the ABYC, some are using fuses of the same spec as the ABYC regs, but a different type, how can one tell the difference ?A further issue
Where do members keep documentation - on the vessel that caught fire and or sank?
Many commercial, professional, marine organisations have an unusually short lifespan, some are very difficult to contact (this might all be directly related to the volume of complaints
Sea Change
Well-Known Member
On the subject of fuses, amongst my cruising friends I have met dozens of boats with lithium installations, and I only know one who used a 'professional installer'. They installed non Bluetooth batteries and used ANL fuses. But I guess he is covered by insurance whereas the likes of Geem and myself are not.
It's not a great position to be in, is it?
pessimist
Well-Known Member
Are their charging figures accurate or wildly optimistic?
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
Wildling sailing uses Bluetti modules. He's very pleased with them. see here (should start on the Bluetti bit)
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rotrax
Well-Known Member
I dont yet know. When recieved it was at 64%. 15 minutes later, charged with the mains at home, 100%.
There is a Bluetti 180 FB Group.
I joined and read lots of posts before paying just over £500 quid for one.
It certainly works well within its design parameters and recharges from 240V extremely fast.
As it gets used for real, I will let the forum know how I get on with it in the real world.
Tradewinds
Well-Known Member
This battery manufacturer is confident that their product will not give problems when it comes to insurance (I know, it's American), But it does quote extensively ABYC E13.
Apart from the 'professional'/ 'qualified' aspect mine was broadly similar - ( in fact, mine appears to be what Paul Rainbow offers to supply on his website - ie Grade A Eve cells with a JK BMS).
Obvs Paul has the benefit of being a consummate professional with a proven track record (& liability insurance!).
ABYC E-13 Standards for Lithium Batteries on Marine Vessels.
Apart from the 'professional'/ 'qualified' aspect mine was broadly similar - ( in fact, mine appears to be what Paul Rainbow offers to supply on his website - ie Grade A Eve cells with a JK BMS).
Obvs Paul has the benefit of being a consummate professional with a proven track record (& liability insurance!).
ABYC E-13 Standards for Lithium Batteries on Marine Vessels.