DIY Antifouling

[VicS]

There maybe some kind of weedkiller type stuff that when diluted is easier to spray on & will dry far quicker making it a viable option.

Id not invest my life savings in researching the idea.

 

[Nicholas123]

It doesn't really, though. An hour on any reasonably warm day is enough.

Still a horrible, horrible job though; especially on a small bilge keeler.

I've been anti-fouling the bottom of a boat for at least 15 years & I've never known it dry completely in one hour.In practice the first bit you did might be more or less dry while you are applying the last bit with the water lapping at your feet from the incoming tide.My current boat is bigger & there is absolutely no way it could be done anything like remotely on one tide.
I might have a couple of hours to spare after scrubbing to spray on something overall in about half an hour then if it dried in about quarter of an hour it would be feasible.

 

[Nicholas123]

Weed-killer won't work a) because most kinds are deliberately designed to become inactive in water, b) they are all highly soluble and would last maybe ten minutes on your hull and c) won't work anyway; they are designed to work on higher vascular plants (e.g. dandelions!), not the mixture of algae and sessile animals (e.g. barnacles) that form most fouling. Note that weed-killer is so carefully targetted that there are plenty of types you can use to kill the dandelions in your lawn without killing the lawn - hardly what you want in anti-fouling.

A successful anti-fouling has to a) release toxins slowly over a long period, b) use toxins that are effective over a wide range of totally different biological organisms, c) not produce long-term effects away from the paint layer and d) be robust enough to last a reasonable length of time..

So what's to stop you finding out what the chemicals are that they add to ant-fouling (I doubt it's top secret) then adding it to something like wall parer paste & spraying it on.That would dissolve slowly I would have thought.Failing that I'm sure other 'bodies' could be used.
I have 5 litres of "Timbercare" & about the same of some old emulsion.Life expectancy of a couple of months dos'nt seem to me to be stretching this into the realms of fantasy.
Nothing ventured nothing gained.........

 

[oldsaltoz]

It's all such an ordeal,all this scrubbing scraping & painting & it seems to me that once having knocked off the barnacles & polished the bottom to a reasonable state it should be possible to just spray on some sort of hard setting weed killer & you are protected for a reasonable length of time.
Anybody tried it?

What you are proposing is very illegal and irresponsible.

Anti-fouling is designed to limit the effect on the environment. If everyone did what you propose the waterways and oceans would be dead and stinking.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[Nicholas123]

Id not invest my life savings in researching the idea.

I'm not going to Vic.Most of the ingredients can be procured I imagine for 2 or 3 quid.

Weed killer & Chilli powder in a wall paper glue mix looks like being the first candidate for experimentation.
It's hard being a top scientist

Other suggestions more than welcome.

 

[VicS]

So what's to stop you finding out what the chemicals are that they add to ant-fouling (I doubt it's top secret) then adding it to something like wall parer paste & spraying it on.

Nothing. Its cuprous oxide ! Of you go.

Another satisfied customer.

 

[Nicholas123]

What you are proposing is very illegal and irresponsible.

Anti-fouling is designed to limit the effect on the environment. If everyone did what you propose the waterways and oceans would be dead and stinking.

Good luck and fair winds.

Putting this in proportion.How is it more dangerous or more irresponsible than the run off from farmers fields of all the chemicals they use to eradicate pests?
Yeah one law for the big boys & another for the rest of us.:nonchalance:

If anti-fouling paint itself was as harmless as now seems to be being claimed it would'nt work & be much good either would it?

 

[Sans Bateau]

My 'troll meter' is going bonkers when I click on this thread.

 

[Nicholas123]

Nothing. Its cuprous oxide ! Of you go.

Another satisfied customer.

 

[Nicholas123]

My 'troll meter' is going bonkers when I click on this thread.

In that case you need a new meter.I hav'nt anti-fouled my boat for two years & am now looking for a modest improvement.I can see that this scares the conventional wisdom!

 

[Corribee Boy]

My suggestion is that you're being completely irresponsible.

If it's so difficult to do it the proper way on one tide, then get someone to help you. (A friend??) Anything water soluble will come straight off again and contaminate the environment.

 

[Nicholas123]

My suggestion is that you're being completely irresponsible.

If it's so difficult to do it the proper way on one tide, then get someone to help you. (A friend??) Anything water soluble will come straight off again and contaminate the environment.

My suggestion is that you & your anti-fouling regime have done more harm to the environment already than I am likely to do.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Putting this in proportion.How is it more dangerous or more irresponsible than the run off from farmers fields of all the chemicals they use to eradicate pests?
Yeah one law for the big boys & another for the rest of us.:nonchalance:

If anti-fouling paint itself was as harmless as now seems to be being claimed it would'nt work & be much good either would it?

The vast majority of the weed-killer etc, that farmers put on their fields is inactivated by contact with water. Yes, some residues make it into the water, but nothing like the quantities they apply!

As I pointed out above, weed-killer is not going to work. It gets inactivated by water, and in any case, weed-killer works on higher, vascular plants, usually of specific target groups. It doesn't work on algae or on animals, at least not very effectively. The vast majority of the fouling organisms on your hull won't be touched by it.

The toxin in most anti-fouling is, as pointed out by VicS, Copper Oxide. The amount of this in the paint is tightly controlled.

Wall-paper paste would last about 5 minutes - the stuff dissolves in water, that's why we use paint! The paint is a matrix which holds the toxin in suspension so it will be released slowly, providing the ability to keep on stopping organisms getting a foot-hold for a long period.

 

[srp]

Since TBT was banned (at least for the prdinary boat owner, it might still be available to the like of P and O) the best antifoul available is what you see on the chandlers shelf, labelled 'Antifoul'. In my experience it lasts for about half a season, maybe a bit more if you're lucky, and most people put it on annually and either scrub off halfway through, or put up with the fouling.
Weedkillers (of the agricultural type) are designed to act on plants which are entirely different to seaweeds, often by affecting things like auxins (eg Roundup). Some of them are also selective, ie they will kill broadleaf plants and leave moncotyledonous plants unaffected. It is very doubtful that an agricultural weedkiller would be effective in treating seaweeds, let alone crustaceans. You could opt for a more aggressive chemical like sulphuric acid or caustic soda, but as others have mentioned that would be totally irresponsible.
How about something like cuprous oxide, mixed with some sort of solvent based liquid resin, with some pigment added for the desired colour? Oh, hang on a minute.....

 

[Nicholas123]

The vast majority of the weed-killer etc, that farmers put on their fields is inactivated by contact with water. Yes, some residues make it into the water, but nothing like the quantities they apply!

As I pointed out above, weed-killer is not going to work. It gets inactivated by water, and in any case, weed-killer works on higher, vascular plants, usually of specific target groups. It doesn't work on algae or on animals, at least not very effectively. The vast majority of the fouling organisms on your hull won't be touched by it.

The toxin in most anti-fouling is, as pointed out by VicS, Copper Oxide. The amount of this in the paint is tightly controlled.

Wall-paper paste would last about 5 minutes - the stuff dissolves in water, that's why we use paint! The paint is a matrix which holds the toxin in suspension so it will be released slowly, providing the ability to keep on stopping organisms getting a foot-hold for a long period.

OK so it's now down to a solution of copper oxide & chilli powder suspended in something that won't dissolve immediately & is thin enough to spray.
My research & Development Department is on the case.I shall see how long ordinary emulsion lasts in water.

 

[Nicholas123]

Since TBT was banned (at least for the prdinary boat owner, it might still be available to the like of P and O) the best antifoul available is what you see on the chandlers shelf, labelled 'Antifoul'. In my experience it lasts for about half a season, maybe a bit more if you're lucky, and most people put it on annually and either scrub off halfway through, or put up with the fouling.
Weedkillers (of the agricultural type) are designed to act on plants which are entirely different to seaweeds, often by affecting things like auxins (eg Roundup). Some of them are also selective, ie they will kill broadleaf plants and leave moncotyledonous plants unaffected. It is very doubtful that an agricultural weedkiller would be effective in treating seaweeds, let alone crustaceans. You could opt for a more aggressive chemical like sulphuric acid or caustic soda, but as others have mentioned that would be totally irresponsible.
How about something like cuprous oxide, mixed with some sort of solvent based liquid resin, with some pigment added for the desired colour? Oh, hang on a minute.....

That's the stuff they reckon lasts a year & don't tell you that the bottom of your boat will look like the moon after you have used it for a few years is'nt it? Maybe something that is only expected to last a couple of months but is easier to apply & maintain would be a more realistic solution?

 

[dulcibella]

Very sad that the chilli powder solution is another delightful myth. Most fouling organisms lack the capsaicin receptors that would allow them to respond to chilli.

 

[VicS]

Nothing. Its cuprous oxide ! Of you go.

Another satisfied customer.

OK so it's now down to a solution of copper oxide & chilli powder suspended in something that won't dissolve immediately & is thin enough to spray.
My research & Development Department is on the case.I shall see how long ordinary emulsion lasts in water.

Going to need a little product development to overcome the fact anything water based will take longer to dry than the solvent based AF that you are rejecting because they take too long to dry.

A more volatile solvent needed........ Lighter fuel maybe... been discussed in another thread recentl.y

Very sad that the chilli powder solution is another delightful myth. Most fouling organisms lack the capsaicin receptors that would allow them to respond to chilli.

I decided to try it a few years ago. Very low fouling that year!




Only snag is that I forgot to add it to the AF

 

[smeaks]

Going to need a little product development to overcome the fact anything water based will take longer to dry than the solvent based AF that you are rejecting because they take too long to dry.

A more volatile solvent needed........ Lighter fuel maybe... been discussed in another thread recentl.y


I decided to try it a few years ago. Very low fouling that year!




Only snag is that I forgot to add it to the AF

I have been looking at patio magic to get the green off my canvas work. This is meant to be an algea killer ..... if you mixed this neat in some regular AF would it also work to add potency to the AF and stop the slime?

 

[chewi]

Have I undertood this right?
The OP says he hasn't antifouled for two years, yet the effort of even that it is too much, so he would rather set about a load of illegal experiments to end up with an illegal product than spend a couple of hours using proven legal products.
He also appears to think that in less time than it would take to apply an off the shelf product he will out-tech both the research depts and the environment agencies to concoct a spray on snake oil.

I think he is deluded, but if he is right, and confident, as another has said, the market genuinely awaits the OP, and there is money to be made.

On the other hand, if he were confident, he wouldn't be asking here, where he doesn't like the answers he gets.

I am mystified at what the OP is trying to achieve.
Is he trying to save an hour or two once every two years, or beat the antifouling industry at its own game?