Distressed Sadler 290 owner. Tea and sympathy required

[fastjedi]

Early last year we committed to buy our ‘lifetime’ boat’, a Sadler 290. We were very excited when our hull popped out of the mould at the end of April 2008. Rampart Yachts also completed the deck, all other GRP parts and some of the interior joinery before going into administration during June 2008

Over the past 6 months we worked hard to find a solution. It now appears that our ‘Plan B’ is also slipping away from us. We now feel unable to continue from a psychological and financial point of view. We want to move on, ideally, preserving enough money to get the family back on the water with a MAB next year.

The boat is currently lying in a boat shed at Littlehampton. Even in its part completed state it is absolutely gorgeous, so much so that I can’t face visiting it anymore!

My questions are ...... Have any of you found yourself in a similar situation? ..... What do we do with our Sadler 290 and how do we move on?

 

[matelot]

I have no personal experience butt I know that a lot of other people have, from westerley, dehler etc. they seem to move out the bits they have paid for and own to be finished off by a boatbuilder elsewhere. only answer really.

If you're not willing, I guess that someone else might be interested in buying your bits.

 

[anniebray]

I'm really sorry to hear of your predicament. My 290 is hull no 42 so we missed Ramparts demise by 6 weeks...what luck ! If it may help to reinforce your confidence I will say that it is a cracking boat. Goes like a dream & doesn't appear to have any vices. I do have contact details for a couple of the ex Rampart staff.

 

[rwoofer]

Does this mean that Hillyards have gone into administration as well?

Since the Sadler is a fairly unique boat, I would ordinarily be tempted to get it to another builder to complete. However I suspect this will require a fair degree of work from your perspective, which is something you may not have the patience for anymore.

If you have clear ownership of the part build then maybe you can sell it on. I doubt you will get much, but at least it allows you to compare the financial/psychological cost of continuing with being free from any further financial/psychological impact.

I bought the Sadler 290s nearest competitor an RM880 when my dealer went bust last year. Lots of people persuaded me to try and chase companies to get everything sorted. In the end I decided to stop messing about and accept where I was. It was a cathartic moment and from then on I started to enjoy the ownership. The point being that the psychological element was far more important than I realised.

You have my deepest sympathy.

 

[fastjedi]

Yes, I know how good they are!!!! .... but I dont have enough money or confidence to continue

 

[Habebty]

I have 290 number 3 so much tea and sympathy to you!! What work needs to be done? Is all the structural stuff done? Can the joinery be finished by a yourself or a hired joiner. Must be worth persevering as these are amazing boats.
What is the situation re hillyards at the moment as I was thinking of having some internal mods done by them this summer?

 

[Twister_Ken]

I thought Hillyards had undertaken to finish them. Not so?

 

[sailorman]

what was the post from Earwigger or troublemaker a couple of wks ago saying the Boss from Hiliards woz in Jail

 

[nimbusgb]

If the GRP work, deck and 'some of the interior' is done then I don't see the problem. What needs to be completed to get the boat to a point where you can launch her?

Can only offer coffee at the moment I'm all out of tea and I'm not going out in that lot again!

 

[moondancer]

Real sympathy for you, this must be a big blow. I think that if you can maybe clear your mind of it for a couple of months then return to think clearly about a course of action. You might feel more like completing her.

I imagine a part completed boat in this market would only fetch a small portion of the money invested. If there is any way to get someone else to complete it at a reasonable cost then that might be the best way to go.

The big issue this highlights, the one that the magazines seem to skirt, is how does the industry demonstrate that it can sell boats at zero risk to the client. If it doesn't then I can't see many builders surviving, as I for one wouldn't trust any money with any dealer at the moment as part payment for a yacht.

 

[fastjedi]

It's not really a DIY job until the remaining bulkheads, large GRP parts and deck are fitted.

I tried to buy my way out by moving it to another builder. All it did was make me poorer!

 

[Judders]

PM sent.

It will not help at all to know that you are not the only one, but at least that means there are yards out there who are doing the work. Presumably there are economies of scale in this. Is it now too late for all the owners to get together and negotiate with one builder en masse as it were?

 

[haddock60]

Is it worth trying to sell it on Boats & Outboards?

 

[Pasarell]

Really sorry to hear things have gone belly up again Ian. I did wonder when there started to be comments about Hillyards on here a couple of weeks ago and hoped you might have been out by now. From your comments above it sounds as though they didn't do much.
Is it too late to resurect any of the other plans you were looking at? I haven't spoken to Nick or Mike about it since before Hillyards took over but they may be interested in the current climate.
I hope you can get things sorted out and eventually get your boat on the water.
Peter

 

[rr_123]

might be teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but might it be worth speaking to these guys?

Worst that could happen would be a price to finish the job?

 

[Heckler]

Exactly, how does one trust dealers with large amounts of dosh? I went through it last Oct, seriously worrying about it, I asked about clients accounts but made sure that when I transferred it electronically that it went to a named client account. Definitely no cheques or cash that could go by mistake into a general trading account.
Since then and in todays climate I would not even do that, I would insist on a solicitors client account being used.
Stu

 

[fastjedi]

Stu is absolutely correct .... I have lost so much money that LM is well beyond my budget

 

[matelot]

[ QUOTE ]

The big issue this highlights, the one that the magazines seem to skirt, is how does the industry demonstrate that it can sell boats at zero risk to the client. If it doesn't then I can't see many builders surviving, as I for one wouldn't trust any money with any dealer at the moment as part payment for a yacht.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only way you can ever buy at near zero risk is to buy ex stock and even then there is the problem of retention of title clauses from the manufacturer. But the same issue applies when you buy a car or a house. The answer is some sort of insurance but then you would only get that if it wasnt needed.

 

[Gordon]

You have got my sympathy....what a storey. It is pretty stressful buying a yacht even if all goes well.
Would it not be possible to get the job finished by someone...
Martin Sadler springs to mind......I spoke to him once and he was very helpful.

 

[Suffolk Explorer]

I am another part-built Sadler 290 owner is the same situation, and am equally thinking very hard what to do.

On the more general principle:
The British Marine Federation standard contract (which is used by the majority of UK boat-builders) provides totally inadequate protection for the customer in the event of the collapse of the builder. While it allows the customer to own what has been built so far, for modern boats, the loss of the production facility, tooling and skilled workforce means that the cost of completion of the boat will be massively increased. For example, a boat where the hull has been moulded and for which the customer has paid 50%, is likely to be uneconomic to complete. It would be cheaper to buy another boat, so the customer has lost half the cost of his boat.

In any other purchase of this size eg houses, cars, this situation would be unacceptable and either the industry or the government would have taken action to protect the customer.

Knowing what I know now, I would never buy a new boat from a manufacturer and would strongly advise anyone else to do the same. However, everyone following this advice would lead to the complete death of the British boat-building industry.

I anyone has sympathy for my situation, I would urge you to bring whatever pressure you can to bear on the British Marine Federation and the government to put in place some form of indemnity scheme to protect customer’s interests. (I envisage something similar to the Glass and Glazing Federation deposit indemnity scheme, and would be willing to be involved in designing it.)

Only by doing something like this will we save our boat-building industry and its associated jobs, and save others from the misery we have endured.