Demand for moorings plummeting?

[skyflyer]

Re: Nope !

Let’s multiply those figures by 20x to modern equivalents

“My first house, new, in 2017 was £111000

£22200 (20%) Deposit was more than 1 years salary.

I worked 80 hour weeks and repaired cars and motorbikes after work to earn the deposit. I ran £500 cars, we lived on £30 a week shopping and saved like mad to get the deposit together.

After paying the 1000 quid plot deposit we had 3 months to find the balance. We had £160 left in the bank.”

I am simply pointing out here that house prices, salary and living costs have not kept pace.
In most other respects I agree with your post

 

[skyflyer]

Re: Nope !

Isn’t this just semantics?

You are dodging the question and resorting to insults - that usually means you have lost the argument.

If my figure of 45% gross salary on interest is wrong please give the correct figure. Just a one line calculation will do

Excuse me butting in to this (but as the Op whose thread was hijacked maybe that gives me a right )
If you earn 30000 a year and can borrow 3x then that’s 90000 loan
At the end of year one if loan accrues 15% simple interest you will have paid £13500
£13500/30000 x 100 = 45%
So far so good

So you are correct to say that you need 45% of your salary to pay the interest on the loan. Actually, more, because you have to pay the interest after tax these days now MIRAD has gone!

That is nit the same as the interest on the loan being 45%

Then you also have to account for the complexities of compound interest, repayment of capital etc

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

Pity that they have changed the size of Mars bars because in the old days you could measure inflation against the number of Mars bars you could buy for the price of anything. Now they are much smaller & it messes up the " Mars Bar theory" . Same goes for Wagon Wheels". Could not run a Lego cart on them now.
Is there anything that one can substitute for Mars Bars that has not changed in the last 100 years?
Other than man's insistence on arguing over nothing of any relevance of course.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Nope !

Isn’t this just semantics?

So you are correct to say that you need 45% of your salary to pay the interest on the loan. Actually, more, because you have to pay the interest after tax these days now MIRAD has gone!

That is nit the same as the interest on the loan being 45%

Then you also have to account for the complexities of compound interest, repayment of capital etc

The compound interest doesn't matter if we are only considering Interest, and the compounding period is the same as the payment period, which apply in this case.

Repayment of capital does not come under the heading of Interest.

The significance being that capital repayment is a kind of forced saving - you keep the money for yourself in that it repays a debt against an asset you own. Interest is money just given away - rather like rent

For those interested here are some pretty pictures:

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5568/housing/uk-house-price-affordability/

I can't vouch for the data but it seems in line with what I have seen eslewhere. Both the affordability and mortgage payments for first time buyers are roughly the same now as 30 years ago so people are spending no greater proportion of their income on housing than they did 30 years ago. In that time real incomes have increased significantly so people are still better off than they were in spite of the complaints.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Re: Nope !

Humm must get this offmy chest; so here goes;

If one compares a Train with those who are economists and those that are Managers and Developers it comes out thus -

The Economists can be compared to the Train Guards, riding in the rear carriage looking behind them and the train, so their view of the World is whats behind and already happened, reporting on whats one by.

The Managers and Developers are up front driving the Train, deciding the route, speed and where to stop /start, so they are looking forward for the best actions.

I know where my money goes in deciding upon who knows best ?

 

[Quandary]

Re: Nope !

Pity that they have changed the size of Mars bars because in the old days you could measure inflation against the number of Mars bars you could buy for the price of anything. Now they are much smaller & it messes up the " Mars Bar theory" . Same goes for Wagon Wheels". Could not run a Lego cart on them now.
Is there anything that one can substitute for Mars Bars that has not changed in the last 100 years?
Other than man's insistence on arguing over nothing of any relevance of course.

I was using bicycles, if you exclude the carbon fibre jobbies the construction and performance has not changed much for a century.

 

[lukedh]

Re: Nope !

...........Is there anything that one can substitute for Mars Bars that has not changed in the last 100 years? .

They haven't been allowed to alter the size of a loaf of bread, large loaf 800 grams, small loaf 400 grams. OK, they did change from Imperial but no change since then. They really wanted to change to a smaller large loaf, saying that the consumer wanted it but they weren't allowed to. Maybe it is why they promote "Artisan" bread. I remember a large white for a shilling.

 

[skyflyer]

Re: Nope !

The Managers and Developers are up front driving the Train, deciding the route, speed and where to stop /start, so they are looking forward for the best actions.

In your analogy I'd suggest that most of todays big CEOs manage on the principle that if they start unbolting parts of the train and throwing it off (or if possible selling them off) the train will go much faster until the next station, where they will be getting off to catch another train. Of course the fact that the train may breakdown a bit further up the line is no longer of any concern, because the Railway rewards them only for an early arrival at the next station.

Edited to add: that includes throwing off quite a few of the staff on the way, too

 

[Resolution]

Re: Nope !

Excuse me butting in to this (but as the Op whose thread was hijacked maybe that gives me a right )

Apologies for the hijack and thread drift. Your original post was a good one.

 

[skyflyer]

Re: Nope !

Apologies for the hijack and thread drift. Your original post was a good one.

No apology needed; it has turned into an interesting debate - arguably more for the Lounge but thats up to the mods!

 

[jac]

Re: Nope !

​

Perhaps you might consider working hard for the things that you want in life rather than whining about what others have earned.

Wow - how obnoxious are you in real life???

I was born in 67 so again got the tail end of baby boomer stuff. I had 1 year of student debt of about £400. I just managed to buy my first house whilst I was still in my 20's but was left with no disposable income. Of course inflation then was just falling into single digits and annual pay rises kept up so the mortgage repayments became less of a burden.

I also managed to get 15/60's of a final salary pension scheme before they changed the terms of that.

I have worked hard and am basically happy with my life.

But I know that I am going to have to work harder and longer than I wanted ( or my parents generation did) to give my children the things that I took for granted - despite the fact that careful planning by the childrens' grandparents means they are at least guaranteed to inherit a reasonable amount.

The difference is that I can look down a generation and see the struggle that many younger people face. Far too many in the older generation have a pan generational myopia that is staggering. I assume that some of them do care about the future but i'm fairly certain that you are not one of them.

 

[Resolution]

Re: Nope !

Every generation faces different challenges. One of the main reasons that the past 70 odd years have seen such economic growth and the creation of so much personal wealth in western countries has been that there have been no major wars actually in those countries. War, as in WWII, is such a destroyer of things as well as people. Thank goodness my generation and my children's generation has avoided it. So far.
But historically we know that major wars in Europe have erupted every 50 to 100 years, with few exceptions. I look at my grandchildren and pray that they will not be the next generation to suffer such a war.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

Every generation faces different challenges. One of the main reasons that the past 70 odd years have seen such economic growth and the creation of so much personal wealth in western countries has been that there have been no major wars actually in those countries. War, as in WWII, is such a destroyer of things as well as people. Thank goodness my generation and my children's generation has avoided it. So far.
But historically we know that major wars in Europe have erupted every 50 to 100 years, with few exceptions. I look at my grandchildren and pray that they will not be the next generation to suffer such a war.

Ok if you did not live in Yugoslavia then !!
Amazing how people's memories fade if it is not them that are involved.
So much for peace in Europe

 

[Birdie]

Re: Nope !

A simple view is that having been born in 1968, I bought my first house 22 years ago for £44,000 with a 10% deposit and just over 3 x my crummy salary at the time.

20 years later I sell my house for £230,000. So now a 10% deposit would be £23,000 and would require a salary of more than £65,000 to afford at the same level when I first bought.

I'm not aware of many single people who would be able to afford that, let alone someone in their later 20's and 30's, and this for a 2 bed terrace house!

So, back to the original point, I suspect there will be little money for the younger generations to spend on sailing.

 

[solent clown]

Re: Nope !

Ok if you did not live in Yugoslavia then !!
Amazing how people's memories fade if it is not them that are involved.
So much for peace in Europe

let us not forget the Falklands, Op Granby, then going back to the finish the job- badly, Afganistan,Sierra Leone Oh, and the "troubles"
Still at least one spawned a hit sailing song...

 

[solent clown]

Re: Nope !

and worst of all the decades old battle against the trots from the Choking Puke at BATUS.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

I was using bicycles, if you exclude the carbon fibre jobbies the construction and performance has not changed much for a century.

Made me laugh when one of our super fit lads arrived at the club on his expensive carbon cycle having completed 25 miles in under one hour. Then I pointed out that my wife on her home built Claude Butler with bits bought as a teenager from doing jobs, such as an usherette in the local theatre, had a certificate for doing 50 miles in 2 hours and 8 minutes ( might have been 10 minutes , she has lost the cert) at the age of 15.
She is quite proud that she got stopped by the police in Chelmsford late one night for exceeding the 30 MPH speed limit. I suppose that is a bit like a modern day ASBO.
Her dad was the first cyclist to break 25 miles in under the hour in Essex club racing before the war. If you cannot do it in 50 minutes now don't bother to race.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Nope !

20 years later I sell my house for £230,000. So now a 10% deposit would be £23,000 and would require a salary of more than £65,000 to afford at the same level when I first bought.

I'm not aware of many single people who would be able to afford that, let alone someone in their later 20's and 30's, and this for a 2 bed terrace house!

So, back to the original point, I suspect there will be little money for the younger generations to spend on sailing.

But you wouldn't need that much - 20 years ago you could get 3x first plus once second - now you can get 5 times joint. So your 230000 house with 10% deposit only needs an income of around 41000 and the interest rates are much lower.

Each generation has different priorities. You just have to look around you to see that the younger generation spend much more on experiences - the foreign holidays, gap years, eating out an socialising and so on that we ever did. The figures are out there - they are better off in real terms than we were at that age, and certainly than our parents were.

But where the Baby Boomers have had it really lucky is in their retirement income. They have a lot more having contributed far less than we will or, still worse, our children.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

No idea how people can afford mortgages. Both my houses I built myself from scratch & were cash paid.
Would never have afforded them if I had had to buy & pay a mortgage.

 

[Quandary]

Re: Nope !

No idea how people can afford mortgages. Both my houses I built myself from scratch & were cash paid.
Would never have afforded them if I had had to buy & pay a mortgage.

Back in 1971 I asked the Halifax for a mortgage to buy a plot and build a house on it, they offered me £9k based on my income but first I had to have more than £1k on deposit with them, it took me almost a year to save it but I went to the Bank and asked for a bridging loan of £1,200, the price of the serviced plot, the manager sat me down and lectured me for half an hour about thrift, then offered the loan. We did all the building work ourselves, made more difficult with the prices of materials going up so fast nearly every week, we had to advance buy and store all our stuff and work over the top of it. When the mortgage loan came through I asked them to revalue the house so they upped it to £10k which meant I had enough, £1800, to buy an Achilles 24 complete with rig and road trailer from Butler Mouldings, paying in advance of delivery because a new value added tax was coming in in April. My wife would not let me start on the fit out of the boat for ages until we had enough rooms in the house to let us move in. We sold the house in 2004 and I still had to finish some stuff before putting it on the market.

It has been a great life!