Demand for moorings plummeting?

[Birdie]

Re: Nope !

But you wouldn't need that much - 20 years ago you could get 3x first plus once second - now you can get 5 times joint. So your 230000 house with 10% deposit only needs an income of around 41000 and the interest rates are much lower.

Each generation has different priorities. You just have to look around you to see that the younger generation spend much more on experiences - the foreign holidays, gap years, eating out an socialising and so on that we ever did. The figures are out there - they are better off in real terms than we were at that age, and certainly than our parents were.

But where the Baby Boomers have had it really lucky is in their retirement income. They have a lot more having contributed far less than we will or, still worse, our children.

Sorry, don't agree with that, perhaps they are spending their money on other things because property is so unaffordable, the generation between 20-30 are having to deal with high property costs, tuition fees and student loans, pension costs etc etc

If the average salary is around £27K, then a simple 2 bed house at £230K is not easily obtainable for a single person, like I was when first buying.

Although I have missed out on final salary pensions, at 49, I have benefited from being able to buy a house when they were in reach of someone on a low salary and perhaps later on, the huge growth in house prices.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Re: Nope !

Tut tut. Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Come on then own up, which one? The give away was you thinking that admitting in being a banker during that time was going to persuade anyone that you understand financial products.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

If the average salary is around £27K, then a simple 2 bed house at £230K is not easily obtainable for a single person, like I was when first buying.
.

Do not believe that £27K average carp. It takes in to account those on the dole & minimum wage etc. In the construction industry 40 K is fairly easy. When I retired I was interviewing people for £ 60 & £ 80K on the company's behalf. They would have bitten the hand off of anyone with an ounce of common sense at 35 years plus of age.
Site agents do not have to be that bright & get £ 40K & project managers who want to push hard & change jobs & chase money can get £50K . The company I was contracted to had a couple on £75K. Experienced estimators able to prepare tenders of £50m + were being offered @ £80K &even then, because they could not find them, they had to ask me to stand in on a number of instances.

However, running one's own business is still better & i still miss it- regardless of the hassle !!!

 

[Birdie]

Re: Nope !

Do not believe that £27K average carp. It takes in to account those on the dole & minimum wage etc.

When I say the average salary is around £27K, it doesn't include those on the dole, they don't earn a salary!!!

I understand your perspective from a retired construction point of view, but all my friends are of working age. In the insurance industry, there are plenty of people earning well under the average,, but what do I know!

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: Nope !

When I say the average salary is around £27K, it doesn't include those on the dole, they don't earn a salary!!!

I understand your perspective from a retired construction point of view, but all my friends are of working age. In the insurance industry, there are plenty of people earning well under the average,, but what do I know!

Agree, most of my family are on less than £27000, A couple quite a lot less. None are on the door, all are working

 

[SimonFa]

Re: Nope !

Just to be pedantic but you should really be talking about median wage not average. And if you are considering your own you should also look at the regional median salary. £27k goes a lot further in, say, Sunderland, than it does in London.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

Agree, most of my family are on less than £27000, A couple quite a lot less. None are on the door, all are working

Yes but you knock out all those who are never going to make a decent income from the averages. They are never going to buy a house anyway. So you look at the sort of people who are in a higher bracket & the sort who are likely to lead a life that would enable them to buy a house then you find the average salary is far higher.

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: Nope !

Yes but you knock out all the losers from the averages. They are never going to buy a house anyway. .

The rules of the forum preclude me fromm answering how I would like to so will leave it there

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

The rules of the forum preclude me fromm answering how I would like to so will leave it there

Ok i have edited it to suit you, but it is the same thing. A hard unfortunate fact of life, however you look at it
There is a level of income that will never let one buy a house so knock that out of the equation & the average rises substantially

 

[Birdie]

Re: Nope !

Ok i have edited it to suit you, but it is the same thing. A hard unfortunate fact of life, however you look at it
There is a level of income that will never let one buy a house so knock that out of the equation & the average rises substantially

I'm out as well, have got better things to do.

 

[Resolution]

Re: Nope !

Come on then own up, which one? The give away was you thinking that admitting in being a banker during that time was going to persuade anyone that you understand financial products.

I was preparing to give you an accurate but shirty answer, then I read your response on another thread about fair play in measurements for LOA in marina berths. Well done for a rare honest approach. Sometimes accurate numbers do matter.

 

[steveej]

Re: Nope !

Evening all, just came back to the thread after looking at a few properties today and doing a few sums as we are looking to move house. Seems we have bank managers and Cambridge maths grads who don't understand mortgage 'amortisation'. I'm not the least bit surprised but there you go.

This thread is about the decline in demand for moorings. My view is that its a question of priorities these days, there is a housing bubble, it takes longer to get on the housing ladder and so buying a yacht in your early thirties is just not a realistic concept for the vast majority in this day and age. Reading through some of the responses on here it seems some people do not acknowledge there is a housing bubble and believe it is as affordable to get on the ladder as it was when they were 20 years old.

Find me a 25 year old individual or couple with no kids who can do that today - anyone who does this is at the extreme end of the normal distribution curve and have probably had quite a lot of help from their parents.

Instead we have people who obviously think there is no such thing as a housing bubble/crisis whatever you want to call it and houses are as affordable as they ever were. My view is that these people need to go and take a cold shower and brush up on there knowledge of how a capital repayment mortgage actually works, crunch the numbers before vocalising their ill informed judgement on the forums.

Do I really want to join a yacht club and listen to these old baffoons?

No. I'd rather do my own thing.

Quoting 3 x salary @ x Interest rate actually shocks me as I can't believe people are that ignorant and they still think they are correct!!!!.

 

[Trop Cher]

Re: Nope !

Ok i have edited it to suit you, but it is the same thing. A hard unfortunate fact of life, however you look at it
There is a level of income that will never let one buy a house so knock that out of the equation & the average rises substantially

But then that wouldn't be an average, would it!

 

[Blue Sunray]

Re: Nope !

I was preparing to give you an accurate but shirty answer, then I read your response on another thread about fair play in measurements for LOA in marina berths. Well done for a rare honest approach. Sometimes accurate numbers do matter.

Come on with it then? Still interested (oh and as an aside I'm not sure where you got jealousy from?). I know Fred the shred isn't everyone but expecting a career in late C20/early C21 banking to get you credit for fiscal credibility is up there with Eric Morecambe.

 

[Corribee72]

Re: Nope !

Yes but you knock out all those who are never going to make a decent income from the averages. They are never going to buy a house anyway. So you look at the sort of people who are in a higher bracket & the sort who are likely to lead a life that would enable them to buy a house then you find the average salary is far higher.

So that's the vast majority of nurses and members of the armed forces out then.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Re: Nope !

So that's the vast majority of nurses and members of the armed forces out then.

No it is not.

Even a top end LCpl beats £27k. Army Pay: http://www.armedforces.co.uk/armypayscales.php#.WmOuvkx2u70

Qualified nurse STARTING salary £22k average £31k https://www.totaljobs.com/salary-checker/average-nurse-salary

 

[rotrax]

Re: Nope !

Wow - how obnoxious are you in real life???

I was born in 67 so again got the tail end of baby boomer stuff. I had 1 year of student debt of about £400. I just managed to buy my first house whilst I was still in my 20's but was left with no disposable income. Of course inflation then was just falling into single digits and annual pay rises kept up so the mortgage repayments became less of a burden.

I also managed to get 15/60's of a final salary pension scheme before they changed the terms of that.

I have worked hard and am basically happy with my life.

But I know that I am going to have to work harder and longer than I wanted ( or my parents generation did) to give my children the things that I took for granted - despite the fact that careful planning by the childrens' grandparents means they are at least guaranteed to inherit a reasonable amount.

The difference is that I can look down a generation and see the struggle that many younger people face. Far too many in the older generation have a pan generational myopia that is staggering. I assume that some of them do care about the future but i'm fairly certain that you are not one of them.

Well, First Mate and I spent a little time with dslittle and his partner when we were both weatherbound in Arklow a few years ago.

Obnoxious he is not.

He has been there, seen it, done it in Public Service, has strong views on certain aspects of what he has experienced, but dont we all?

A peer of my youngest sons is an entrepreneur par exellence. When at school got the franchise to sell Calendars in Oxford at Chrismas time, flogged street food and anything else that would earn a bob or two. Now he and his stepfather are vieing to be one of the biggest Taxi Companies in the County. All through vision, prudent saving and subsequent use of capital.

He and his partner and their child are buying their own house.

Another, by comparison, was born with the proverbial silver spoon in his mouth. Professional parents, large posh house in an expensive village, good degree.

He was unable to hold down a decent job, mostly due to arrogance. He kept telling the managers/bosses how to do it.

He was not bothered about getting on the housing ladder as he expected to inherit from his parents.

Well, their marriage fell apart, the house was sold, mum-his favourite-went off into the sunset with another bloke and dad is busy gambling and drinking his way to the poorhouse.

During a frank disscusion with him round a bottle of red I showed how he and his partner could, in two years, get the deposit on a starter home in our town.

It meant 10 quid phones, banger car, flogging a few things like his Rolex and Motorbike and cooking for themselves and stopping the expensive holidays, winter ski trips, fags and pub.

Like my son had to do to get his house, with, I admit, some finance from us.

What did he do? Sweet Felicity Arkright.

Now lost his highly paid IT job and driving a Taxi for the first guy.

My boy fell out with his partner, who left, manages the morgage on his own and has just re-financed to get in some cash to do the windows and front door, re-decorate and make the garden less labour intensive.

It depends how much you want it really-more than the current young persons lifestyle or not.

To me, the young generation appear very profligate.

 

[Kelpie]

Re: Nope !

Ok i have edited it to suit you, but it is the same thing. A hard unfortunate fact of life, however you look at it
There is a level of income that will never let one buy a house so knock that out of the equation & the average rises substantially

I'd have someone's arm off for a 27k job. It might do you good to consider the breadth of demographics on this forum, and that statements like that risk making you sound like a pompous arse.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Nope !

I'd have someone's arm off for a 27k job. It might do you good to consider the breadth of demographics on this forum, and that statements like that risk making you sound like a pompous arse.

You do not get the point. I agree that my comment " losers" was unfair I did not realise that It was quoted before I had time to edit it on reflection.
However, going back to the income level. Anyone on £27 K is going to have to buy a house in the cheapest area of the country & it could be somewhere were no one wants to live & need both partners working. Any less & they have no chance; I certainly could not. So let's rule that out for now.
So there are millions of cleaners, carers, caterers or whatever who will never get a £27 K job & with the best will in the world will never be able to buy a house. They will rent from a private land lord or a housing authority & deal with that. House buying will be a dream too far if they even want to. many do not.
But you should not include that section of salary in the mean of salary in the house buying sector of the economy
Take out every salary below £27K & the average ( or weighted average, mean or median or whatever term you want to give it) available to people who WILL be in the housing market is much higher.
& by the way - I have walked the dole queue, so I do know a little about zero income at 33 years of age

 

[Kelpie]

Re: Nope !

Your attitude reminds me of the Daily Mash headline: "Government pledges to retain human rights act, after redefining 'Human' as anybody earning over 50k".

Does it not make you incredibly angry that, by your own admission, people on lower than average incomes cannot secure a mortgage and must instead pay someone else's, by renting from a buy to let landlord?

By the way, despite both SWMBO and I earning less than the 27k average, we do own a house, and a yacht, have a child, two nice cars, and no we do not live in an undesirable part of the country. But from your comments I guess people like us would not be welcome at your local club as we are poor and therefore the wrong sort of people.

And we wonder why sailing had this elitist image....