Delta to Rocna - is it worth it - three specific questions

[Trident]

4 Marina nights this year (for my wife's birthday), 1 night ashore with relatives, all the rest at anchor. Most on the hook last year too. The peace of mind when the wind and seas get up is worth the expense of the Rocna to me. (Though for full disclosure I bought mine second hand for under half what a new one would have cost )

 

[noelex]

However I would reconsider in a Heartbeat if they gave away live clones of your lovely mermaid with every purchase!:encouragement:

keep up the good work with the pics, very useful and educational .

Robin

Thanks Robin. I think my Mermaid is one in a million .

Your question does raise an interesting point. The general policy used by many boats is to escape to marinas when bad weather is forecast. Interestingly, when extremely bad weather is forecast such as named storms many marinas are considered unsafe. Instead boats resort back to anchoring albeit with special precautions such as multiple anchors and tied to mangroves etc.

I think it is time to rethink the policy. Modern anchoring gear is much better and electric anchor winches have made handling heavy anchors easy.

In the rather dubious protection offered by "marinas" in this part if the world I feel safer in bad conditions relying on my anchoring gear. I have sustained no damage in conditions when friends in marinas have suffered considerable damage.

These are small, and not statistically significant samples. I am not trying to advocate what others should do, but with the development of much better anchoring gear I wonder if it time to rethink the idea of heading for a marina. This is especially true of the poorer quality (in terms of protection) marinas that are common in many desirable cruising grounds.

The worst weather I have experienced at anchor was when only a Force 8 was forecast, but conditions were considerably worse. One of the major problems of the technique of "escaping to a marina" is that to be sure of avoiding extreme weather you need to be very conservative.

The most dangerous combination is to be hit by extreme weather at anchor when the boat is only equipped with marginal anchoring gear and the skipper has little anchoring experience in strong wind (no knowledge of snubbers etc). The philosophy of "escaping to a marina" promotes acceptance of poor quality anchoring gear and does not allow skills to develop gradually.

 

[Robin]

I come from the era where marinas were almost non-existent so anchoring was an important lesson to learn. I do remember running away from one very nasty blow when we had a smallish (21ft) bilge keeler by going up a creek at 2 hours after local HW and deliberately running aground pointing up the bank towards the wind expected, knowing I would not be floating again forabout 8 hours as in until at least 2 hours before the next HW. We then watched and listened to all the others spend a worry filled night dancing round each other and re-anchoring by torchlight in the wind and rain Thinking back that boat had a small CQR too, not that it was needed that night, but it certainly didn't drag!

 

[starboard]

the one thing you need to do with the Delta to get it set easily is nothing!..........drop the hook slowly and slowly pay out chain as you drift back in what breeze there is, this should be sufficient to set the anchor nicely assuming a nice sandy bottom. I have found if you try to set it by charging astern at great deal of knots you will only drag the abchor.
Once set and in a good bottom it will not shift. I did early trials on the Delta with the RNLI when they were looking for a secondary anchor to replace the Fisherman type. We used an Arun class lifeboat for the trials and achieved great results by just letting the weight of the boat drifting back set the anchor.
I am looking at purchasing a Najad 331 and the first thing I will do is replace its present Bruce with a Delta.

 

[JumbleDuck]

the one thing you need to do with the Delta to get it set easily is nothing!..........drop the hook slowly and slowly pay out chain as you drift back in what breeze there is, this should be sufficient to set the anchor nicely assuming a nice sandy bottom. I have found if you try to set it by charging astern at great deal of knots you will only drag the abchor.

I have heard the same about other types. Give them time to dig in and they work fine; pull back full throttle at once and they just skite across the bottom.

 

[ditchcrawler]

On my Moody 31 I replaced my 10kg delta with the same size Rocna.I had a very early Rocna from New Zealand when the agent was an Irish company and they took it to LIBS where I picked it up in Jan 2007. All before the transfer to Chinese
manufacturing.
I had some discussion via the internet with the designer? Peter Smith.I wanted more holding power with the same weight due to a dodgy back although I have a powered windlass.
I do not do a lot of anchoring, mostly lunch breaks and the occasional night in relatively moderate conditions.The Rocna has performed very well and sets quicker than the Delta.It also seems to hold well on a shorter scope.
When it is lifted there is always a lot of mud attached to it (I am on the East Anglian coast) and I usually have to hose it down back in the marina.
It is attached just with a shackle (screw pin type certified that you need to use a screwdriver on) and it comes up the right way nearly all the time.I do have a longer stemhead fitting on my boat with a hoop across it and I was lucky that it fits well.
All in all I consider it to be an improvement on the Delta for at the time not much more money.

 

[tudorsailor]

I have a 40kg Rocna on 22ton yacht. Probably over-sized. No regrets in having replaced the CQR. Always sets 1st time including the places where I could not get the CQR to set

I do not have a swivel, just a high strength shackle

Always ends up the right way round. Usually this involves a frightening rotation as it pass over the bow roller. I do not think that it can settle inverted due to the weight distribution

Happy with my choice

TS

 

[Robin]

I have heard the same about other types. Give them time to dig in and they work fine; pull back full throttle at once and they just skite across the bottom.

I once swam over to a friend's boat we were cruising in company with, and anchored it for them because his wife on the wheel of their Westerly Seahawk, only knew of two options in reverse, dead stop or go flat out when setting ( rather attempting unsuccessfully to) their anchor, a 35lb CQR cast copy version . It set for me first time and we both sat through a full gale that night behind a small island just inside the Morbihan, We also had a 35lb CQR at that time, but a genuine forged version. I think the bottom was gravelly judging by the loss of galvanising on eventual anchor retrieval but their problem in setting for sure was expecting any anchor to grab bottom at full speed astern.:ambivalence:

 

[charles_reed]

My dilemma also. CQR - always held once set . Danforth - always set and always held Now Delta - always holds once set.

More experience needed I think.

From my experience, both CQR and Delta need a long way to set and once dug in need to be pulled in hard with about 2/3 full reverse.
Lack of fluke area, can make them "creep" in mud or under heavy continuous pressure.
Having recently invested in an anchor meeting all of Alain Poiraud's criteria (concave, large fluke area, weighted chisel point, roll bar), I can vouch that it sets in about 1 metre, cuts through grass, and only drags when fouled.
I would not consider the Rocna good value for money.
However far more important are the anchoring substrate and the competence of the anchorer than the anchor itself.

 

[JumbleDuck]

From my experience, both CQR and Delta need a long way to set and once dug in need to be pulled in hard with about 2/3 full reverse.

My 25lb CQR - rather oversize for 26 feet / 4 tons - has never taken any appreciable distance to set. It digs in where I drop it. It has never dragged.

 

[snowleopard]

Delta - but initial impressions are a bit mixed. Specifically of the first 4 or 5 uses, in light wind "lunch hook" conditions, it seemed to take a long distance to set - hopping along the bottom alarmingly with very little weight in it.
Latterly we have done a much more cautious approach - dropped, let boat lie back. But waited 15 minutes or so before very gently astern to see if setting.

Also, anchor came with a swivel - but 9 times out of 10 when lifting, unless get straight onto roller instantly, the balance of anchor seems to turn itself the wrong way round requiring contortions with boat hook to get right way and onto roller.

Over 15 years of use I have a simple technique for setting the Delta: Drop it, have a leisurely cup of tea and then give it a bit of reverse.

Mine flips over in the bow roller but the roller is around 4" wide, not the narrow offering seen on many production boats that only works if the shank is the right way round in the first place.

 

[Heckler]

I know, I know - not another anchor thread. Sorry.
But these things are important to peace of mind when reliant on the hook in bad weather (eg Scotland West coast where pontoons and moorings are a rarity)

We used a standard Bruce style (manufacturer fitted) then latterly a Rocna on our previous boat - and had no material issues or scares in 10 years. Drop, quick tug in reverse, forget.

New boat came with a 20kg Delta - but initial impressions are a bit mixed. Specifically of the first 4 or 5 uses, in light wind "lunch hook" conditions, it seemed to take a long distance to set - hopping along the bottom alarmingly with very little weight in it.
Latterly we have done a much more cautious approach - dropped, let boat lie back. But waited 15 minutes or so before very gently astern to see if setting.

Also, anchor came with a swivel - but 9 times out of 10 when lifting, unless get straight onto roller instantly, the balance of anchor seems to turn itself the wrong way round requiring contortions with boat hook to get right way and onto roller.

So wondering about whether it would be worth the substantial investment to swap a near new Delta for another Rocna. Anybody got direct experience of this specific move - specifically
A) would a Rocna set materially quicker / in less distance?
B) is there any material difference in ultimate grip when set properly ?
C) when using an anchor swivel, does a Rocna self rotate the right way to go on the roller ?

For info we have a heavy ish 38 footer, and have recently invested in 80m of 8mm chain in the locker.

PS Please don't give me lots of suggestions of other / better hooks. It's stay with Delta or move to Rocna.
And if anybody is downsizing and wants to swap a 20kg Rocna for a 15kg one let me know ;-)

In 8 yrs of my Delta, never a prob, swmbo drops, lets out 5 times scope I leave in gear astern on tickover, she puts foot on chain and gives me thumbs up! Thats it. In Culatera anchorage the other afternoon it went up to 30 kts frm the west, cue nervous owners, then an Irish Westerly went past us sideways with his Rocna dangling uselessly from his bow, need I say more! We were fine!
S

 

[Chanquete]

Our Delta anchor usually drags in soft mud grounds. In contrast our Danforth sets instantly. What are yor opinions about the possibilities of soldering a curved bar on our Delta anchor? Teoretically the aspect would be similar to the Buegel type anchors.
Thanks in advance

Chanquete

 

[sailaboutvic]

Over 15 years of use I have a simple technique for setting the Delta: Drop it, have a leisurely cup of tea and then give it a bit of reverse.

Mine flips over in the bow roller but the roller is around 4" wide, not the narrow offering seen on many production boats that only works if the shank is the right way round in the first place.

let me get this right , you drop your anchor amd leave it to set it self , am I correct ?
may I ask what happen when its blowing 15 plus kts surely why you have having your cup of tea you pride and joy is slowly if not at speed shoting back towards some one else pride and joy ,
i dont want to be rude but I cant say how many time a month we see this and most of the time it ends up in chaos , one of the worst was only two months ago when a boat had to be tow off some rock , the owner words where after a goup of us help him off was , the kettle hasnt even finished boiling yet it all happened so quickly .
i have to agree with him from him leaving the cockpit and the boat at a stand still , to the first gust of wind and the yacht moving at speed was no more then a minute , shout from all the other boats around and the owner didnt hear a word first he know was when he felt a bump .
lucky for him had was a small lump taken out of his rudder ,
he also been useing this type of tecknic to anchor for years , this time his luck run out .
you have to ask your self , would you park you car and leave the hand brake off just because the cars not moving at that moment of time .

 

[RichardS]

Our Delta anchor usually drags in soft mud grounds. In contrast our Danforth sets instantly. What are yor opinions about the possibilities of soldering a curved bar on our Delta anchor? Teoretically the aspect would be similar to the Buegel type anchors.
Thanks in advance

Chanquete

A Delta is a plough anchor whereas a Bugel is, I believe, a concave anchor, although less concave than a Rocna, so very little similarity.

Richard

 

[snowleopard]

let me get this right , you drop your anchor amd leave it to set it self , am I correct ?

Get down off your high horse.

I drop the anchor and watch as the wind ranges the cable out to make sure I end up in the right place. Sometimes, because a multi lies differently to the lead mines, I pull up the anchor and try again. The key point is that I don't put the engines astern until the anchor has set itself. The time taken to drink a cup of tea is a good guide to ensure you don't do it too soon and jerk the anchor out as the rode comes tight.

 

[JumbleDuck]

may I ask what happen when its blowing 15 plus kts ...

In that case my CQR sets itself quite happily and very quickly. What does NOT work is lowering it and then instantly whacking the boat into full reverse.

 

[dunedin]

Thank all for your inputs on this one. Very helpful.

My (probably distorted) summary on this seems to be that a Rocna might indeed set quicker than my current Delta, but won't be any more inclined to come up the right way around on the swivel.
I think I will re look at my bow fitting - as after starting this one I realise that It may not be able to handle the Rocna's roll bar anyway

Over 15 years of use I have a simple technique for setting the Delta: Drop it, have a leisurely cup of tea and then give it a bit of reverse.

Snowbird, I think you had posted this previously on a related thread - and so I adopted this approach also, and it seems to be better than our first attempts. So we too apply patience and only tug astern later, as any early power just moves backwards out of position.
Not tested in a blow yet though

 

[Robin]

Get down off your high horse.

I drop the anchor and watch as the wind ranges the cable out to make sure I end up in the right place. Sometimes, because a multi lies differently to the lead mines, I pull up the anchor and try again. The key point is that I don't put the engines astern until the anchor has set itself. The time taken to drink a cup of tea is a good guide to ensure you don't do it too soon and jerk the anchor out as the rode comes tight.

Some folk take things far too litterally, I thought it was quite a good way to describe the procedure! peeps it seems are always in too much of a rush these days. In our case as we prefer filter coffee and it is always made and kept ready in a large pump action Thermos it really is only the time to 'drink ' it or even finish the mugful that was already on the go as we arrived.:encouragement:

 

[Garold]

Thank all for your inputs on this one. Very helpful.

My (probably distorted) summary on this seems to be that a Rocna might indeed set quicker than my current Delta, but won't be any more inclined to come up the right way around on the swivel.
I think I will re look at my bow fitting - as after starting this one I realise that It may not be able to handle the Rocna's roll bar anyway



Snowbird, I think you had posted this previously on a related thread - and so I adopted this approach also, and it seems to be better than our first attempts. So we too apply patience and only tug astern later, as any early power just moves backwards out of position.
Not tested in a blow yet though

This season, I bought a cranked anchor swivel fitting to turn the anchor to the right orientation as it comes into the bow roller. It looks like a normal swivel fitting but with a bend in it.

Like this one:

http://www.osculati.com/en/cat/Scheda.aspx?id=245

And it has worked out fine. The anchor now seems to come up the right way round and removes some hanging over the bow trying to turn it.

Cheers

Garold