Deliveries: The Greater Debate

[circumnavigation]

Re: Smashing prose

Hi, as you were the original poster for "La Rochelle Disaster" I can say, if you have not picked up from it earlier, that the information given to all ports on this coast line was the same. A number of them were closed, except for in-bound traffic. It was bad that night, but I have posed the question already: At what time of day did he leave Les Sables? The incident in question, although the information as to the how, whys and whatevers, are not going to be made public for the time being, was bad, but nothing untoward has been mentioned as to what exactly happened - this is guarded information. For what it is worth here, I have communicated with Kim Hollamby, before the thread was written; there is much to be examined and I, now, will say that this will be brought out in the open, but it does go to show that if you have a podium to air your views, then you must air them which, sadly, not many are able to do.

Martin

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mpcee.co.uk/katoema'sworld.htm>http://www.mpcee.co.uk/katoema'sworld.htm</A>

 

[jimi]

Timed Deliveries

There is a serious point here cos as I work the timed deliveries I ask for span too wide a window so I have to leave the garage open, this is a risk I consider worth it to avoid inconvenience .. however I'm not sure how it affects my insurance .. any help appreciated.

<hr width=100% size=1>.. when's that again, but ..

 

[paulrossall]

Re: Deliveries The wider question and our first child

Jimi
If there is going to be a big big debate on deliveries then the scope of the debate needs to be widened so that all the varying and different, and indeed diverse aspects of this subject matter, which does effect people all over this planet, no matter what their race or creed or religious afilliation, no mater what afliction these suffer and no matter what time of the day it is where they are,and this brings me round to the accuracy of predicted delivery which can be very inconvienient as it was when my wife delivered our first child later than the predicted delivery, which I am told does happen,, but to deliver ones child after the pub has closed does lead me to fully the support the enquiry into proffesional delivery crews, which the Doctors and Nurses concerned apparently were but this did not prevent me having to go out late at night in awfull weather just to meet a revised delivery time which was not at all convenient for me and left me eventually all of my own very very late at night or very very early in the morning whichever it was as I was exhausted and dehydrated and this leads me to confirm my support for a big investigation.IMHO

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[Rowana]

WHAT AN ABSOLUTE WASTE OF FLIPPIN' TIME!

As soon as there is one incident, there is this great hue and cry for "debate" & "legislation".

This is not confined to sailing either. There has been a huge increase in the legislation recently regarding firearms, but has this made one bit of difference? On the contrary, there is more gun crime on the streets of Britain today than ever there was. The only people it hurts is the legitimate shooting people. I speak from experience here. I am a commited target shooter, and have held a firearms cretificate for almost 40 years, the first one cost 7/6 in old money. Now, there is such a beuracratic (and costly) procedure to go through, and does it make it any safer? Not a bit, just more interminal form-filling and time wasteing. I'm still the same guy persuing the same sport as I did 40 years ago!

As for deliveries, I'm sure that there is as much variation in the services available as there are in the motor trade, from the big garage to joe bloggs in his back yard. I have been crew on a couple of deliveries, one from La Rochelle as it happens, and I must say that the skippers on these were both through and professional. I would suggest that, as in many trades/services, you pays your money and take your chances. The wise person gets some first-hand feedback if possible, and like your local plumber/garage/electrician, it's those that provide a good service get the best jobs.

No more bloody interference in this, and other, industries, if you please!

Jim



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[ParaHandy]

circum whats it ... you're in deep doo-doo when the aberdonians start on you ....

anybody know if he parks his boat in penarth? there's an uncanny similarity in prose and language ...

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[ianj]

Let's have some names then. Who did you do your trips with? Was it a company or an individual skipper?

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[tcm]

NO: THIS MEANS YOU

Let be known that the style of prose is QUITE DIFFERENT from anyone in Penarth.

I have tried to tell Mr Parahandy this on SEVERAL occasions in a pleasant manner, but he accused me of several awful things and then SET FIRE to my car, whilst my 15 innocent children were in it. Surely it cannot be right that Mr Parahandy is allowed to do this? The children were on their way to help out at the nearby old people's home and I was on my way to work at the Samaritans.

For anyone who want to contact Mr parahandy or set fire to him etc his address is
1 The High Street
Somewhere very posh
Unlike me, try to earn a crust
SURREY


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[Gunfleet]

Re: NO: THIS MEANS YOU

YOU ARE A CRUEL MAN, tcm.

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[BrendanS]

cause and effect.

The barking mad must all write like this. Cicumnav, like Noah, also keeps posting about his trials and tribulations with a difficult boatyard and the legal proceedings (all of which is very mysterious and hush hush and can't be talked about, but is brought up at every conceivable opportunity)


Not the same, but probably related

<hr width=100% size=1> I asked an economist for her phone number....and she gave me an estimate

 

[ParaHandy]

Re: NO: THIS MEANS YOU

NO ... he's from bratfurd or was it scunthorpe ....

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[Gunfleet]

Re: NO: THIS MEANS YOU

You too. I bet you think Chris Eubank's funny. Well, I can tell you, my Scottish Freund, until tonight I never knew Eubank was a Yachtmaster Offshore with special connections to the Environmental Industry.

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[TheBoatman]

I used to be?

A delivery skipper, I'm now an EX delivery skipper. The reason I stopped was because of the type of deliveries I was undertaking and the demands the owners were trying to place on me.
All of my deliveries were in an area from the Thames to Flushing to Boulogne to Southampton.
My customers were the MD types that could only get (or only take) 2 weeks holiday a year for fear that the company might not be there when they got back. So they would have me deliver the boat to a port, catch the ferry over on their first day which left them aboard ready to start the holiday. I would then be told where they had left the boat at the end of the hols and I would go get it and put it back on its mooriing.

Now the mechanics of it were this.
1. I would produce all of my "tickets", YM O/S with commercial endosement, DTI boatmans Licence etc.
2. They where at liberty to check them out and I told/encouraged them to do so?
3. I would supply all the crew.
4. They would supply the keys to the boat, fully dieseled, watered,vittaled.
5. Return ferry fares for me and crew.
6. Full insurance coverage for me, crew and boat against all risks AND on this point I insisted on a written declaration from the owner that this had been done.

Now comes the rub, the reason why I stopped.

Because I insisted on the above, the owner would then "expect" the boat to be in port ready for his holiday irrespective of weather conditions. He/she did not what to hear that bad weather had stopped us from delivering the boat.
I know it sounds stupid that the owner would insist that we went ahead becasue after all it was his/her property we had in our possession, but never the less they still insisted on delivery.

The final straw for me was sitting in Ramsgate and getting a call from an irrate owner, who was sitting in Neuwpoort asking where his boat was, and didn't I realise that I was spoiling his holiday, that he would have to get a hotel room for him and the family etc.

And I would admit to (and I'm laying bare my chest here) that he convinced me to put to sea in conditions that could best be described as "iffy". I and my crew had thee most horendous crossing. I got the boat there in one piece but I would freely admit that it was only in part due to my experience (1%), the rest was up to GOD (99%).

On arrival, I handed over the boat and told him that I would not be available for the return trip unless I could choose the weather window.

He declined my offer, I declined to deliver the boat back. He didn't pay the expenses, so I walked away from delivering his boat, paid the crew off out of my own money and have not delivered another boat since.

What I learnt was that delivering boats is good fun with the right owner and can add a lot of sea miles to your resume, but at the end of it, it's just not worth risking your (or your crews life)for.

Now I just sail for fun?

To get back to the original posters quiery, yes, delivery skippers should have a level of competance to undertake a particular trip and be able to prove it. Owners/insurers should understand what level of service is being offered by the skipper, but overall the insurers need to lay down guidelines to the owner/delivery skipper, as to maximum "predicted" weather forecasts etc.

I could go on but its late and I'm tired, I leave it up to the forum members to debate the subject?

Signed
Peter
EX Delivery Skipper

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[BrendanS]

Re: I used to be?

as i posted on a similar subject on Mobochat.
Basic safety equipment = a brain and ability to use it. If the owner is demanding delivery to a set date, with no regard to safety or weather conditions, forget it.

Anyone demanding delivery to a set date should allow weather window and pay for the possible man days involved. If they won't accept those conditions, walk away.

<hr width=100% size=1> I asked an economist for her phone number....and she gave me an estimate

 

[jimi]

Dangerous Deliveries

There I was grasping the wooden handle in my hand, in front of me a flat greeny brown vista, overhead a dull black thundery sky .. oo err I hope it does'nt get any darker or I wo'nt see them coming thought I .. then it happened bang ... shit ... "wish I'd put a box on." thought I as I hobbled away from the crease.

<hr width=100% size=1>.. when's that again, but ..

 

[Rowana]

<<Let's have some names then>>

Professional Yacht Deliveries Worldwide - <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.pydw.co.uk/>http://www.pydw.co.uk/</A>

I would definately sail with them again. On the first trip, the owner came along for part of the time, and wanted to do a few things somewhat differently. The skipper told him very politely but firmly that the contract was to deliver the yacht A to B, and in the manner decided by the skipper. Once he had signed acceptance at the end, then he could do whatever he wished, but until that time, he had no say in the running of the vessel whatsoever. Dont get me wrong, there was no aggro involved, but the position was made abundantly clear to him, which he accepted.

Incidently, we asked him why he had chosed PYDW to do the delivery, and he said he had asked several companies to quote, but PYDW were the only company that did what they said they would do, and when it would be done by. It was this that made his decision.

I don't get paid by PYDW by the way, and only give my own personal opinion.

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[doris]

Delivery contracts

When I did deliveries, admittedly I stopped 10 years ago, there was never a problem with owners accepting that I had complete control over the decision as to sail in adverse weather. Accept my contract and they accepted to pay expenses for waiting etc. The final date could never be written into the contract, just best endeavours. If I was concerned about the seaworthiness of the boat I had the right to call in a surveyor, which I once did. I suggest that the current concept of strict timetables et al. is just a sign of the times and the instant gratification that is part and parcel of everyday life today. No regulation will ever change that!

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[Twister_Ken]

WARNING - PUNCTUATION PROBLEM

This thread is using an inordinate amount of commas which are consequently becoming hard to obtain on the High Street. Full stop supplies are still plentiful however; and there are limited amounts of colons and semi-colons available. Please use these whenever you can and help avoid the nation running out of commas entirely: a situation which will affect pensioners and small children much more than the rest of us.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[longjohnsadler]

Re - rather unsporting...

How limited are the supplies of colons etc? I think we need to know.
And are there still lots of question marks?

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[jimi]

Re: WARNING - PUNCTUATION PROBLEM

Do'nt worry a delivery of comma's is due on the good ship #@T~*#@ soon, along with a load of artificial toes cos of the impending frostbite series. Subject to the Sleep on Leisurecraft at Sea Regulations and Passage planning for the incontinent kippers.

<hr width=100% size=1>.. when's that again, but ..

 

[alant]

Re: I used to be?

And all this fun for £1/NM!!
As previously stated, if there is too much regulation, the costs must increase & owners will use the grey/black market. Even under the current 'system', owners will think nothing (having forked out a small fortune for their pride & joy) about screwing down the delivery skipper/company to a fee which can be derisory & even then, will hold the skipper to ransome before actually paying him - as seem to have happened in this example.
Add any additional cost of this regulation & corners will invariably be cut.
The boating 'industry' also suffers from too many part-time 'leisure professionals' - those who work full time non-boating, get a qualification (commercially endorsed - easy) & then each season do deliveries etc. as an 'out of office activity'.
Part-time work in any sphere cannot possibly give the same level of expertise as someone doing it full time, particularly in an environment as unforgiving as the sea. It is this 'expertise' which is difficult to define & probably impossible to regulate & cannot be done simply by checking pieces of paper.


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