Deck Saloons

[pmagowan]

Wow! You are giving yourself a lot of work.

The stripped plank boat that I built, long time ago now, was a Folkboat. It was just 1.5" x 0.75" strips, bevelled as required to fit, glued and edge nailed. The only cold moulding I have ever done was building Flying Fifteens. So no, I've never combined the two methods. I have always had wooden boats, until ten years ago, when I finally saw the light with GRP.

The profiled ceder strips are about 50-70% quicker to construct than the standard edge nailing and require fewer mould frames so there is a good time saving there. The cold moulding can go on fast because it can be mechanically splined so it requires a lot less fiddling. The grp or alternative composite can be attached by vacuum bagging so is quite quick also, if a little scary. Much of the work will be in planning and preparation. The CNC will be able to help make internal structures as measurements should match the computerised plans. So it will be a massive air fix kit!

 

[dancrane]

Any chance of you giving us your new boat's probable dimensions, rig and style inside and out, PMag?

I'll have a doodle over the weekend and post the drawing here if you like. Just for fun.

 

[LadyInBed]

Autopilot. When it get's bad enough to go below, leave the AP to it. Wheels take up a lot of room and add all sorts of complexity with hydraulic pipes to the steering system. The AP is one wire N2K wire :0)

I have the head unit for my tiller pilot with my instruments over the companionway. So when it's really 'orrid I just sit in the companionway and look out through the sprayhood, and press buttons if I need to change course, but I'm still in my foulies if I need to be on deck in an instant.

Same here.
A wheel below takes up a lot of space, and you need windows in the right place to see the sails if sailing.

 

[dancrane]

The height of the deck saloon above the deck always interests me too.

They get lower and lower to advance the windward aerodynamics, but meanwhile the view from inside deteriorates.

I almost used to salivate over pics of the old-style Nauticat 52...

...while the present incarnation is more streamlined and doubtless better to sail as a result...

...but standing in her saloon at the boat show, I was amazed how little I coveted her. I'm sure that was simply because the view from the interior helm was more like what you'd get by peering a few inches out of a deck-hatch, rather than the commanding all-round view available from a purpose-designed wheelhouse.

Of course there are plenty of motor-yachts with high cabin-tops if it really matters...but I liked the proper old-style motor-sailers which compromised properly, rather than compromising their compromise, by only pretending to offer a full interior helm position.

 

[Wansworth]

As we a4e not talking about formular1 racing cars a proper wheelhouse that stands up and has good sight lines all round will not detract much from the speed of the boat and does that matter.Wheelhouse need to cater fro sitting down and standing up.I fancy the mixture of say the Inchcape motor fishing boat type weddedto a sailing boat hull.

 

[dancrane]

Assuming you meant it sincerely Wansworth, I concur. The difficulty seems to me to be the tendency of new-boat buyers to regard a yacht in the same way they'd regard a third or fourth car - something wholly non-essential, which can thus justify being roundly impractical in the dependably miserable UK climate.

Who buys a roofless car, here? Generally convertibles aren't for everyday, nor bought for the majority of the individual/couple/family's mileage...and convertible cars do at least have roofs...imagine buying an open car with no cover at all, ever...yet that's an accepted outlook for most sailing yacht buyers.

Selling the versatility of a yacht which does everything, doesn't seem to be easy. The buyers' invariable vision is of their new, performance-biased sailing yacht on a "convertible day", in perfect blue and yellow weather...

...and who'd want an awkward-looking, high-topped, more expensive, less-slick yacht than they could have had, on a day like that? Unfortunately, back in the real world, it also means ever more boats built and bought which aren't ideal for use on most of the days they'll be afloat...

...which drastically reduces the days-per-year they'll be sailed, which makes them far costlier in terms of £-per-day on board than an initially-more-costly motor-sailer...hence my third/fourth car analogy, because most sailing boats are accepted as unnecessary luxuries, rather than an opportunity for all-weather fun.

Aesthetics must be a big aspect of what can or can't be marketed...Westerly's standard Konsort was a fair performer under sail, so turning her into a brisk-performing motor-sailer must have seemed a nice logical plan...

...and to my mind, the Duo's appearance showed how very much the public wanted a decent motor-sailer...because looking like that, it's impressive they sold any. I think they sold over 100. I'd love one.

 

[BrianH]

Who buys a roofless car, here? Generally convertibles aren't for everyday, nor bought for the majority of the individual/couple/family's mileage...and convertible cars do at least have roofs...imagine buying an open car with no cover at all, ever...yet that's an accepted outlook for most sailing yacht buyers.

Dan, I completely agree with you and have voted with my wallet - even in the Adriatic where the climate is a world away from the UK's. And I am glad I did as there are plenty of times I have been appreciative of the comfort of a wheelhouse on the surprisingly many times I have been at sea with inclement weather. Also, on blazingly hot days shelter from the sun is critical, which the roof and bimini extension gives.

But your convertible analogy is flawed, I think. Probably the average boat-buyer sees their non-essential object more like a motorcycle than a second car. That would fit all the same parameters of open-air sportiness, including the necessity of layers of protective clothing, which is seen as all part of the fun of dressing up and playing a role.

 

[Wansworth]

Assuming you meant it sincerely Wansworth, I concur. The difficulty seems to me to be the tendency of new-boat buyers to regard a yacht in the same way they'd regard a third or fourth car - something wholly non-essential, which can thus justify being roundly impractical in the dependably miserable UK climate.

Who buys a roofless car, here? Generally convertibles aren't for everyday, nor bought for the majority of the individual/couple/family's mileage...and convertible cars do at least have roofs...imagine buying an open car with no cover at all, ever...yet that's an accepted outlook for most sailing yacht buyers.

Selling the versatility of a yacht which does everything, doesn't seem to be easy. The buyers' invariable vision is of their new, performance-biased sailing yacht on a "convertible day", in perfect blue and yellow weather...

...and who'd want an awkward-looking, high-topped, more expensive, less-slick yacht than they could have had, on a day like that? Unfortunately, back in the real world, it also means ever more boats built and bought which aren't ideal for use on most of the days they'll be afloat...

...which drastically reduces the days-per-year they'll be sailed, which makes them far costlier in terms of £-per-day on board than an initially-more-costly motor-sailer...hence my third/fourth car analogy, because most sailing boats are accepted as unnecessary luxuries, rather than an opportunity for all-weather fun.

Aesthetics must be a big aspect of what can or can't be marketed...Westerly's standard Konsort was a fair performer under sail, so turning her into a brisk-performing motor-sailer must have seemed a nice logical plan...

...and to my mind, the Duo's appearance showed how very much the public wanted a decent motor-sailer...because looking like that, it's impressive they sold any. I think they sold over 100. I'd love one.

There is a yacht called Gang warily. look it up ....interesting marriage and good looking with the right designer

 

[Malo37]

OK if you have £ 1 million to spare ! (Nautical 52 - also my dream boat)

 

[joha]

I have a Trident Voyager 35 which is a deck saloon type based on the Warrior / Challenger hull it has a good deep aft cockpit which I really like. She can be steered from inside so has dual engine controls. The engine lives beneath the saloon floor and has pretty good access to it, also it is quite far forward in the boat so the weight distribution is good. The water tanks are amidships port and starboard and the fuel tanks are under the bridge deck.
The top of the deck house is the same height as the spray hood on the Ben & Bav on either side. The other good thing is the after bilge is almost a meter deep. I suppose on the minus side is that she doesn't have aft cabins and isn't as beamy as more modern boats, I think they first started building them in the late seventies and the last one built in 2004. She has a midships berth that works very well at sea and has a lot of stowage space and actually sails well too.

John

 

[Tranona]

Now this is the sort of info that would make a good article in one of the hosts magazines. Having just read the Feb PBO and YM they could certainly do with a history section to add a little depth. And perhaps a TLAs for beginners section including MFD!!

There is a regular column on terminology on the "Skippers Tips" pages in YM. Problem with made up terms, abbreviations and initials is that they are often ephemeral, not clearly defined or change over time. The subject of this thread being a good example. Long lived ones eventually end up in more permanent books - or have at least in the past. internet will likely change that as we can instantly look up a term with a good chance of getting something.

Googling Deck Saloon would bring up some fantastic images of examples, some of which have been discussed here plus a number of previous threads on this forum on the subject.