cutting up a race - what should I have done?

[ChattingLil]

The river is often busy with races and I do try to stay out of their way, but on Saturday afternoon I was running up the river and came around the bend to find a fleet of sonatas racing towards us. I had 2 metres and couldn't hold my bearing for much further - I MIGHT have managed to hold my nerve and wait for them to get passed us, but I chickened out when the depth read 1.8 and had to gibe across in front of them. The one in the lead had plenty of time to go about, but obviously (and understandlably) they weren't happy - I shouted that I had run out of water and felt awful, but I really didn't know what else to do at the time. (the ones behind the leader were probably happier as they had time to just carry on and went behind me and shot into the lead!).

What should I have done?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Nowt different.

If you needed to gybe due to lack of water, then you are entitled to do so. The Colregs, and the Racing Rules of Sailing are both quite categoric in not forcing another vessel into danger.

Racing doesn't entitle them to run you aground.

Sometimes racing in a river can force such situations.... and over the race series, probably over many weekends, it will balance out for the losing crew....

Obviously you have done the right thing anyway, through the very act of worrying about it, and thinking about what to do differently next time. That is all that could be expected of a cruiser from a racer.

 

[Refueler]

May sound harsh - but sod 'em !

You can round up and hang around - but not if you are drifting further to danger ...

Sometimes you have no choice and have to 'do the dirty' .... sorry but that's their problem ....

You obviously knew what you were doing, you obviously from your post are not one who normally goes about cutting up races ... forget it - not your fault. I would have done same.

 

[Thistle]

The river is often busy with races and I do try to stay out of their way, but on Saturday afternoon I was running up the river and came around the bend to find a fleet of sonatas racing towards us. I had 2 metres and couldn't hold my bearing for much further - I MIGHT have managed to hold my nerve and wait for them to get passed us, but I chickened out when the depth read 1.8 and had to gibe across in front of them. The one in the lead had plenty of time to go about, but obviously (and understandlably) they weren't happy - I shouted that I had run out of water and felt awful, but I really didn't know what else to do at the time. (the ones behind the leader were probably happier as they had time to just carry on and went behind me and shot into the lead!).

What should I have done?

I, too, was out on Saturday and wanted to avoid a race. Like you I was in shallow water and to turn away from the shallows would have put me right across the racing fleet. I chose to turn on the engine and stay in shallow water until they were past. No time for a motoring cone but my actions and flogging sails were a pretty good clue to those involved.

I guess few of the racers noticed what I'd done ... we were all more interested in watching one of the leaders as she dragged the windward mark for about 1/4 mile, much to the consternation of the following boats many of whom couldn't decide whether to round the mark in its new position(s!) or to go to where they thought it had been.

 

[s/v moondancer]

Racing does not confere any special rights!

I do a great deal of race committee, a good committee would be aware of your problems.

In the US you need Coast Guard to hold a race in navigable waters.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Nowt different.

If you needed to gybe due to lack of water, then you are entitled to do so. The Colregs, and the Racing Rules of Sailing are both quite categoric in not forcing another vessel into danger.

Racing doesn't entitle them to run you aground.

Sometimes racing in a river can force such situations.... and over the race series, probably over many weekends, it will balance out for the losing crew....

Obviously you have done the right thing anyway, through the very act of worrying about it, and thinking about what to do something differently next time. That is all that could be expected of a cruiser from a racer.

Agreed - The leading boat should have been aware that you would be running out of water and planned for it anyway - other wise he doesn't deserve to be in the lead.

 

[Simes]

Show Constrained by Draght

We have a large black fender that we hang from the rig when entering shallow rivers and harbours (we draw 8'8"). It definately helps.

Simes

 

[Cerddinen]

Similar issue for me on Saturday. The wind in the bay was stronger than the wind in the river so I had to take in a reef. My inexperienced crew did not do this too successful - and it all took much longer than normal - so I was unable to change course before I reached the windward mark of the race. I impeded the first boat slightly but none of the others but I am sure none of them were impressed. Still, the course was set so that a boat coming out of the river could not avoid it unless very hard on the wind or willing to gybe down the coast.

 

[ChattingLil]

thanks for the supportive replies! Feeling a bit better about it. Bit worried that I dithered a bit and that I could have acted sooner.

Sorry, I don't understand this message....

We have a large black fender that we hang from the rig when entering shallow rivers and harbours (we draw 8'8"). It definately helps.

helps in what way??

 

[ChattingLil]

oh scrap that question! I just saw your edited title - constrained by draft!
thanks

thanks for the supportive replies! Feeling a bit better about it. Bit worried that I dithered a bit and that I could have acted sooner.

Sorry, I don't understand this message....



helps in what way??

 

[s/v moondancer]

Oh, I give 'em 5 short blasts on the horn, they may not know COLREGS but it gets their attention

 

[Judders]

Sounds to me that you did the right thing.

It is the responsibility of the race comittee to set the appropriate course. They should have known there would be such obstructions.

If this sort of thing leave you wracked with guilt then for goodness sake avoid Chichester Harbour, where the clubs seem to compete to put courses where just this sort of incident must inevitably occur.

 

[lw395]

The colregs do not give you the right to gybe, forcing the boat which had been keeping clear (race leader) to immediately alter course.

In fact, either before or after gybing, or both, you would be windward boat and hence give way vessel.

It is a difficult situation, I think the best thing is to a) be predictable, b) act in good time.
Likewise those racing should be trying to predict your actions, you are a moving obstruction that has to be negotiated by everyone in the race.
It often helps to shout early 'I'm going to need to gybe' or whatever. The other boat could then react early. Mostly racing boats can operate around this sort of thing quite happily.
But there will always be random situations where the race leader gets 'unfairly' influenced in a way that could not be predicted, and those further back in the fleet are not affected.

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

You have a number of replies from the "I'd deliberately be awkward squad" - ignore them. Life is much pleasanter if we help each other rather than be obnoxious. And in that connection I feel embarrassed every week here in Cardiff when the race fleet goes out and it's weakest to the wall into the barrage locks. Why are people so rude and unpleasant to each other these days?

All I would have wanted you to do it it had been my race you were jibing in front of is to jibe as early as makes sense for you to give us the maximum time to take you into account. Other yachts, boats and ships are all part of the fun of racing. Indeed, some of the fleet will have welcomed your jibe - there are few things more exciting than crossing another boats bow just 10 foot off and at full chat.

 

[robertj]

cutting up

I agree with the sentiment lets get along, but do see both sides, having raced in the past, one will try to force others, to get an advantage, but when it comes to cruising this comes across (rightly so) as damn right bullying. Early shouts will tell race crews to avoid you as previously posted, once your intentions are clear they will avoid you dont worry.
I have in teh past accidently messed the race leader one fowey week wehn i entered teh harbour, i didn't realise that the leader was going for the line i had anticipated his next round. Rightly so he was annoyed but saw him later which i apologiseed and it was forgotten.

Thats racing

bob

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

The colregs do not give you the right to gybe, forcing the boat which had been keeping clear (race leader) to immediately alter course.

There is no explicit 'right to gybe' anywhere, but there is one specific rule that erquires you to take regard for the situation of other vessels regardless of colregs... this is 2 (b)

Under this rule, it would be appropriate for the OP to be allowed to Gybe.

In order to avoid coming across as beligerent though, I do agree with the sentiment that wherever possible, you should avoid impacting someone's race.

 

[Judders]

When racing you always know that over the course of a season, the misfortune to mix with other boats will hit everyone at some time or another.

Due to nothing more complicated than my ballsing up the start time we were at the back of the fleet on Saturay. Most had got to windward when two IoW ferries passed. We hadn't. That was our last chance of catching the fleet (we started ten minutes late). The week before it was the cruise liner and it's enourmous windshadow that did everyone except the leader, but he'll get his at some point. Whether its windshadow, a tossball in a mobo/rib/jetski, an inconsiderate or merely inexperienced cruiser.

I was very grateful to the guy in a nice old IOR type boat with a broad pale blue stripe who spotted our pennant on Saturday and ducked us with a cheerful (but clear) wave, even though he was on startboard to our port. I just hope I am that fortunate when it matters!

 

[lw395]

There is no explicit 'right to gybe' anywhere, but there is one specific rule that erquires you to take regard for the situation of other vessels regardless of colregs... this is 2 (b)

Under this rule, it would be appropriate for the OP to be allowed to Gybe.

In order to avoid coming across as beligerent though, I do agree with the sentiment that wherever possible, you should avoid impacting someone's race.

I certainly appreciate all the yachts, motorboats, even jetskis that have made an effort to give me space when racing.

However racing is not the main issue here. In colregs windward boat must keep clear. The OP should perhpas have predicted that he would need to keep clear when he was on port and windward boat. Under colregs there is no clear rule about how quickly one may acquire 'stand on' status by tacking or gybing.
Obviously the OP's options are limited once the situation has developed, it is not clear whether he could have turned to windward to allow the right of way vessels to pass.
I don't know the Op's draft, but a Sonata is not particularly shoal draft, so all the boats have the same constraint, broadly.

I'm sure if the Sonatas had been running under kites and the OP was beating up the river, the anti-race element on here would say the windward boat rule held!

Pragmatically if you are going to need to gybe, best do it as early as reasonably possible to give approaching boats most room to respond, whether any of you are racing does not alter this.

 

[jason -and the arguenauts]

I dont think there is any real anti race sentiment on here, but you have to admit that some racers are just downright bad mannered.

On Sunday when we were all milling around waiting for the locks to open there was just one cruiser there who had arrived maybe second or third boat. Man and wife crew. What happened? The race boats barged past them, and piled into the lock. Some race boats as usual didnt even bother with fenders.

So why should cruisers love us when they see that sort of behaviour?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

But my point is that under 2(b), the windward rule is over-ruled.... the windward rule isn't designed to force someone into danger, more to give clear guidance when no other factors prevail....

If the OP was standing into shallow water, and would have gone aground without gybing, then the Sonata would be obliged to give them room to avoid the grounding....

Ironically, this is covered much more clearly in RRS than in the Colregs!

I think however, that ChattingLil will agree that she's still very much on the steep part of the learning curve, and one of things that comes with more time is the ability to read closing situations much further ahead, and avoid such situations to start with.