anderson
Well-Known Member
we want to change from sloop rig to cutter rig on a rival 32 at what distance from the mast head do we need to fit a new strong point and how from the stem head for the tack
cutter rig
- Thread starter anderson
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Georgio
Well-Known Member
On my Contessa 32 which has a very similar rig the inner-forestay is attached about 10-12" below the masthead. Selden do a clever fitting that makes the inner forestay removable if necessary with a quick trip up the mast. If you really want to use both headsails at the same time you will need a decent gap between them, maybe 6' or more, not worth the effort IMO on a 32'er.
I only use the removable inner forestay for No 4 or stormsails. but it works very well.
I only use the removable inner forestay for No 4 or stormsails. but it works very well.
KenMcCulloch
Well-Known Member
Our R38 is cutter rigged and I think you should consider the tack position first. The forehatch and anchor locker will constrain that. You need to establish a strong point on deck by using, say, the bulkhead at the aft end of the chainlocker and installing some kind of chain plate /deck eye with metalwork spreading the load into the bulkhead, or by building a stong anchorage low down in the bow structure with a rigging wire carrying the load into the anchorage structure from the deck fitting, whatever that is. The height of the mast fitting will then be determined by a measurement which keeps the inner forestay roughly parallel to the forestay. Bear in mind that you will also need running backstays from the same height on the mast. Oh yes and you will also need a second pair of winches in the cockpit for your staysail sheets and runners. You may already have those.
What you need to ask yourself is, is it really worth it?
What you need to ask yourself is, is it really worth it?
Salty John
Well-Known Member
The staysail tack is typically 40% of J back from the headsail tack, J being the distance from headsail tack to mast. Masthead location is from around 90% of mast height down to as low as makes the two stays parallel. You will most probably find that this makes for too small a sail area to be useful. Cutters have the mast stepped further aft than sloops.
merlin3688
Well-Known Member
As long as you keep the inner stay within about 2' of the top of the mast runners or jumpers will not be required, anything more then this then runners or forward facing jumpers will be required.
William_H
Well-Known Member
As said it is a matter of spacing all the sails. Typically to look right you need a similar spacing main to stay sail as stay sail to jib.
Also as said luff stays fore and inner should be parallel to one another.
Most cutters of course have a bow sprit to get the jib forward to get decent spacing. As said you need strong anchor points for the tack of each jib forestay.
Regarding the mast I would imagine that the mast should be divided into 3 parts by 2 sets of spreaders and 2 sets of intermediate stays. The stay sail forestay attached at the base of the upper spreaders. You need then intermediate stays from that point back to chain plates a decent distance aft of abeam the mast. Further aft is best but causes more chafe on mainsail when running.
Alternatives are jumper struts with a base at the attachment point for the inner stay sail forestay. The struts face forward pushing the mast aft at the attachment of the inner stay sail forestay.
You might have an inner forestay as boat is at present this could be moved to the junction of the lower spreaders.
Unfortunately all this mast design is a bit tricky and really needs engineering assessment to handle the loads.
While the cutter rig may look very attractive it may upset the centre of effort of the sails so give you too much lee helm and may not be worth the effort of changing what you already have. good luck olewill
Also as said luff stays fore and inner should be parallel to one another.
Most cutters of course have a bow sprit to get the jib forward to get decent spacing. As said you need strong anchor points for the tack of each jib forestay.
Regarding the mast I would imagine that the mast should be divided into 3 parts by 2 sets of spreaders and 2 sets of intermediate stays. The stay sail forestay attached at the base of the upper spreaders. You need then intermediate stays from that point back to chain plates a decent distance aft of abeam the mast. Further aft is best but causes more chafe on mainsail when running.
Alternatives are jumper struts with a base at the attachment point for the inner stay sail forestay. The struts face forward pushing the mast aft at the attachment of the inner stay sail forestay.
You might have an inner forestay as boat is at present this could be moved to the junction of the lower spreaders.
Unfortunately all this mast design is a bit tricky and really needs engineering assessment to handle the loads.
While the cutter rig may look very attractive it may upset the centre of effort of the sails so give you too much lee helm and may not be worth the effort of changing what you already have. good luck olewill
dovekie
Well-Known Member
Lots of good points made by others so far. Can you clarify what you are hoping to gain by the change?
We have changed our oldish 38 foot sloop to a cutter when we changed the mast. The inner forestay is 30% back from bow to mast foot - and 30% down from the mast head. The mast has jumpers to counteract the new inner forestay. The deck fitting required careful thought in order to be strong enough - ours carries right through the deck, and the stem, to outside the hull. Both the outer forestay and inner forestay have roller reefing.
I would observe
1) That the sail rigged on the inner forestay is surprisingly small - surprising to my ignorance in any case! Too small to add
much speed on a broad reach and too small to be effective for a twin headsail downwind rig.
2) It is a great sail for heavy weather - F7 and above in our boat's case, working with the triple reefed main.
3) And it is a great sail for close manoeuvring under sail, being small and easily tacked.
4) But, it makes tacking the genoa, on the outer forestay, much more difficult. The genoa has to be 80% rolled to pull round the inner forestay.
5) And it probably makes the genoa a bit less efficient (?? interfering with airflow)
6) And it costs more (the initial outlay + winches, halyards, UV strips etc)
7) All of which clutters the boat a bit, especially the foredeck.
8) And adds some windage - forward, where you don't want it at anchor.
Overall, we like it, and have kept the arrangement because things are so easy when the wind pipes up, but there are disadvantages.
Good luck with the decision.
We have changed our oldish 38 foot sloop to a cutter when we changed the mast. The inner forestay is 30% back from bow to mast foot - and 30% down from the mast head. The mast has jumpers to counteract the new inner forestay. The deck fitting required careful thought in order to be strong enough - ours carries right through the deck, and the stem, to outside the hull. Both the outer forestay and inner forestay have roller reefing.
I would observe
1) That the sail rigged on the inner forestay is surprisingly small - surprising to my ignorance in any case! Too small to add
much speed on a broad reach and too small to be effective for a twin headsail downwind rig.
2) It is a great sail for heavy weather - F7 and above in our boat's case, working with the triple reefed main.
3) And it is a great sail for close manoeuvring under sail, being small and easily tacked.
4) But, it makes tacking the genoa, on the outer forestay, much more difficult. The genoa has to be 80% rolled to pull round the inner forestay.
5) And it probably makes the genoa a bit less efficient (?? interfering with airflow)
6) And it costs more (the initial outlay + winches, halyards, UV strips etc)
7) All of which clutters the boat a bit, especially the foredeck.
8) And adds some windage - forward, where you don't want it at anchor.
Overall, we like it, and have kept the arrangement because things are so easy when the wind pipes up, but there are disadvantages.
Good luck with the decision.
