Cruising the racer?

roblpm

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According to my little poll here. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?435135-So-what-type-of-racers-do-we-have-here.

Over 50% of this parish race IRC round the cans, with still more racing offshore.

So, a question.

Of those who race IRC, do you know any boat that both places well at regattas raced under IRC and goes cruising with the family?

OK I don't race IRC, in fact I just about get round a round the cans course!! But anyway...............

Commodore of our club just bought a new J97e which is going well here and I think does well on IRC. I had a quick tour of the interior, excited at the fact that it was going to be a great cruising boat as well. It is a bit sparse and I think I would rather go cruising in my 20 year old Parker 275! It doesn't look great as a cruising boat to my inexpert eye! Not much interior space, not much stowage? Maybe I am wrong but I wasn't sold!
 

bedouin

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I get the impression that the Grand Soleils do pretty well under IRC as well as being good family boats
 

flaming

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I get the impression that the Grand Soleils do pretty well under IRC as well as being good family boats

Yes, not quite the question I was driving at though. Reading my OP I see I perhaps haven't phrased it very well.

Does anyone know any actual, individual, boats that are being used to win (or do well in) races under IRC one week, and off cruising the following week? The same boat, not just the same type?
 

onesea

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Flaming I do not follow the racing seen any more, we keep talking about it but never do it. One reason is my observation is no, cruising boats cannot be competitive racing.

Unless you have cruisers who are prepared to sacrifice on creature comfort for speed or racers willing to sacrifice speed for cruising comfort. I have an old 3/4 tonner, her sisters are still raced competitively??? (Including JOG & RORC Races).

Modern racing sails are really not suitable for the abuse when cruising and if anyone says oh the rating looks after that, if it was true why do the top racers all spend a fortune on sails if it did not help win races?

Yes you can change sails strip add and remove gear (weight) for racing but that is all time or money not spent sailing.... Even club racing there is always some one going for the win, yes you can get lucky, yes you can give them a run for there money but win reliably with a cruising boat??? You have got to be bloody good.
 

Birdseye

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According to my little poll here. http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?435135-So-what-type-of-racers-do-we-have-here.

Over 50% of this parish race IRC round the cans, with still more racing offshore.

So, a question.

Of those who race IRC, do you know any boat that both places well at regattas raced under IRC and goes cruising with the family?

Depends how extreme a view you take of "places well at regattas" and of " cruising with the family". For example I dont see you cruising welol with the family without lots of water lots of diesel, a diesel genny, heater, built in TV etc. From your past comments I know you dont view the J109 for example as sailing well to its IRC number. My guess is that you can only ever begin to get those two extremes together when you talk big expensive boats like Swans and likely not even then.

After all, you dont race a Range Rover and you dont commute a Williams F1.


Mind you Flaming. The ethnic minority in this particular woodpile is the IRC bit. I know lots of boats that race competitively under NHC and cruise as well. Maybe that the answer. Drop IRC.
 
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flaming

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From your past comments I know you dont view the J109 for example as sailing well to its IRC number.

Not sure I would ever have said that, it's a very good IRC boat. The 105 is very good offshore but pants inshore.

After all, you dont race a Range Rover and you dont commute a Williams F1.

This is kind of what I'm driving at. A few of us around here are getting a tad annoyed at RORC's insistence that we have lots of cruising friendly goodies on board, like cushions, cookers etc - unless we want a large rating hike for taking them off - when they are never used, because the boat isn't cruised. And all that's happening is that they're getting trashed, making it harder to sell the boat on, as only racers would be interested, not cruisers. I'm just trying to gauge whether nationally that is the same - i.e. "serious" race boats, those with fancy sails and IRC certificates - are they cruised?
 

markhomer

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its all a bit silly this , those that race IRC want to and do regattas as often as poss , guess some throw on cruising kit when time allows , I for decades only raced and mostly on others boats wasnt interested in cruising .

there are other racing rules that attract large fleets , in fact larger ,on west coast of scotland theres cyca with big following , and yes winners , top end boats are often seen cruising around .are IRC concerned no .

they want to provide best they can for top end racing , you cannot expect it to cover everything ,

NHC is a no starter in this area , I wont go there ;)

I race one design monos now and handicap dinghy catamarans , cruise regularily and do cyca white sail racing , with the odd irc racing on others , planning to turn one design mono into something else i can do more irc myself .
 

Birdseye

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Not sure I would ever have said that, it's a very good IRC boat. The 105 is very good offshore but pants inshore.



This is kind of what I'm driving at. A few of us around here are getting a tad annoyed at RORC's insistence that we have lots of cruising friendly goodies on board, like cushions, cookers etc - unless we want a large rating hike for taking them off - when they are never used, because the boat isn't cruised. And all that's happening is that they're getting trashed, making it harder to sell the boat on, as only racers would be interested, not cruisers. I'm just trying to gauge whether nationally that is the same - i.e. "serious" race boats, those with fancy sails and IRC certificates - are they cruised?

Thats not logical Flaming. Who would ever want an ex IRC racing boat with light weight and fancy sails for cruising? I guess all RORC are about is trying to control the approach of boat owners to managing their boats within the certificate. One guy at a club near here, for example, races one design but has gone as far as to remove his interior bulkhead and replace with a lighter weight ply. I am sure that some of your IRC competitors will have replaced ( after measurement) the foam in the cushions with thinner / lighter etc etc. Its what you get with a fixed handicap system.
 

flaming

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Thats not logical Flaming. Who would ever want an ex IRC racing boat with light weight and fancy sails for cruising?

Plenty do! Boats like the Elans, Benny Firsts, Sigmas etc are often found kitted out as fast cruisers. I can think of more than one boat that was up around the sharp end of the fleet, then sold and was then seen with a roller furler and a sprayhood on.
 

jac

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Plenty do! Boats like the Elans, Benny Firsts, Sigmas etc are often found kitted out as fast cruisers. I can think of more than one boat that was up around the sharp end of the fleet, then sold and was then seen with a roller furler and a sprayhood on.

Certainly Sigmas though were sold really as OOD boats which IIRC basically said leave the cruising kit ( e.g. Ovens / mattresses) as supplied so hardly surprising that those owners kept them to OOD rules.

Personally - would buy something like a First or Elan primarily as a cruiser that could race as they seem designed in that fast cruiser / racer mould. I would steer clear of something such as HOD 35 or A35 which seem to have no nod to the cruiser part.
 

Ingwe

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I suspect this is partly why the JPK's and Sun Fast's have sold so well over the past few years as they rate well with a reasonably practical lightweight interior that doesn't need to be modified and is still comfortable enough to go off for a weeks cruise.

We have a SF3200 and have it off to a fairly fine art with all our cruising kit in tubs so that it can be taken on and off easily so that it takes us about 20 min to go from racing to cruising mode. So we regularly go off for weekends when there aren't any races on and had a weeks cruising 2 weeks ago.

They are obviously best offshore and are never going to be great Solent windward leeward boats but do well on windward leewards at venues where you don't do much sailing in sub 8 knots of breeze.
 

Kerenza

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Best compromise in our IRC section is an Elan 333, regular cruiser 0.958, mostly only sail changing between uses. Ben. 31.7 at 0.951 also gets used, but a bit more kit brought on for cruising.
Of course there's me - but then I dont win.
 

richardbrennan

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Chap on my pontoon just won his class in the RTI race in an Elan 333 and seems to cruise happily with his family as well.
 

lpdsn

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Of those who race IRC, do you know any boat that both places well at regattas raced under IRC and goes cruising with the family?

In terms of any individual owner, no.

In terms of boat types, if I were to pick one of recent build, the X34 seems to be quite an IRC bandit.
 

flaming

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Chap on my pontoon just won his class in the RTI race in an Elan 333 and seems to cruise happily with his family as well.

Thanks for that. However the only Elan333 that won it's class was in the ISC classes - 5B. Undoubtedly a great result, but not quite the same as an IRC win. The fastest Elan 333 in IRC3A was 20 minutes faster than the ISC Elan. Photos of the ISC Elan show white sails etc, so not surprising that a fully carbon sailed (as I know the fastest 333 is) sistership is that much faster - in fact actually a great result to only be 20 min slower.

I'm really looking for examples of boats being used for a serious crack at events like Cowes, Dartmouth, Cork, IRC nationals etc - and also being used as cruisers.
 

lpdsn

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Ben. 31.7 at 0.951 also gets used, but a bit more kit brought on for cruising.

Raced on a 31.7 as a main trimmer for a while. Often had the mainsheet uncleated - usually only cleated with any sort of wind if I was playing the fine tuner, and then I'd have the traveller in my hand in case I needed to dump it very quickly.

I really wouldn't recommend the 31.7 for family cruising. It's not so much that they can broach, but that they can go from being OK to broaching in a blink. Even the headsail can cause it.
 

RobbieW

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Festina Lente, Sigma 38 - though I think for the moment Phil's given up the racing to go cruising (and he does put on a Monitor when he goes)
 

jac

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Raced on a 31.7 as a main trimmer for a while. Often had the mainsheet uncleated - usually only cleated with any sort of wind if I was playing the fine tuner, and then I'd have the traveller in my hand in case I needed to dump it very quickly.

I really wouldn't recommend the 31.7 for family cruising. It's not so much that they can broach, but that they can go from being OK to broaching in a blink. Even the headsail can cause it.

Reef earlier when cruising to buy yourself a greater margin of error?
 

scottie

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Last year during West highland week where you passage race alternative to day racing round the cans it was surprising how many trips it took some boats to convert from racing to overnight mode in some cases involving transit vans to move equipment between stops,
This compared the majority of boats that carried all their equipment during races
Both legal but does it go too far?
 
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